Action, Adventure, Excitement, Part 4 Chapter 37 Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 05:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AAE4: That's gratitude for you On Tue, 05 May 1998 07:36:32 -0400 Caprice Said As CAoL Message # 00004262 You'd think after defeating the Greys they'd be happy... Or perhaps some people weren't thinking at all... At this moment Dr. Haakin would have agreed with that opinion... "THOSE BLOODY IDIOTS!" Victoria paced the room, giving an occasional evil glare at the monitors. Cameras in reconnaissance planes showed the shining new better-than-modern cities had set up. "As if the greys weren't bad enough, setting up the domes to keep their traitors as pets, now we have our allies doing the same thing?!?" The explainations of the technology they had been given and the changes that had been made only seemed to fuel her temper. [OOC: Roland, Dhyr, feel free to jump in.] "Are these the kind of idiots who LIKE giving handguns to children?!? Or does having cosmic powers kill braincells?" Victoria occasionally picked up an item setting it down again forcefully, but so far refrained from throwing things. Chris kept near her, not attempting to calm her down yet, but letting her know she wasn't alone. [OOC2: Pause for someone to ask why she is ticked.] Victoria turned, pale eyes flashing, "Where to even START... It's human nature not to value what's given, only what's earned. And having our war with the Greys turned by a bunch of outsiders was bad enough without having our noses rubbed in it! If there had been a transition time, a rebuilding time, the resistance had plans for a transitional government... as it is, there's nothing to keep people from drifting away and apart... "Nationalism. Segragationalism. Bully boys and power-mongers will arise. We finally got rid of it in the resistance the hard way... by burying any leaders whose true loyalty was to something other than the cause! Now they'll be nothing to stop such leaders from arising again. "And the new technology, the new knowledge that's been given us will feed the wars to come.. There's no knowledge that can't be perverted into spawning weapons of war... No technology that is pure! I -know-! It's what I've been doing for the resistance all these years! "If some of these powers hang around to enforce the peace... then in twenty or thirty years the resentment may be enough for a new resistance, a new war... "Then it starts all over again," Victoria's rant finally ran out of steam, and she slumped into Chris's arms, as he just stood there and held her tightly. =========================== Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:07:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE Over on Greyworld On Tue, 05 May 1998 22:43:30 -0700 Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00004268 > On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:20:34 PST > Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004218 > >> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 23:57:07 -0700 >> Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00004211 >> >> If enough Greys follow the rebels the original leader will yield to >> the new one, contacting leader after leader, it looks like about >> 40% of the populous will support the new leader, enough of the rest >> may be persauded by some show of strength or an act of overt >> superiority by the rebel leader. >> >> The pasting that Grey forces on Earth are getting will help. > > I'll offer the Leader Grey command authority over the Bolos, but > subordinate to mine. That should help him provide a show of > strength, but not endanger anyone off world. This proves rather persausive. > To the "rebel" leader. > > ^Which is best for your success, rescuing the remainder of your race > from Earth, or leaving them to their fate?^ ^Extracting them, if it can be credited to us. It enhances our racial strength and they will probably side with us. Could be decisive^ =========================== Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE4: That's gratitude for you On Tue, 5 May 1998 22:43:19 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004275 > On Tue, 05 May 1998 07:36:32 -0400 > Caprice Said As CAoL Message # 00004262 > > "And the new technology, the new knowledge that's been given us will > feed the wars to come.. There's no knowledge that can't be perverted > into spawning weapons of war... No technology that is pure! I > -know-! It's what I've been doing for the resistance all these > years! > > "If some of these powers hang around to enforce the peace... then in > twenty or thirty years the resentment may be enough for a new > resistance, a new war... > > "Then it starts all over again," Victoria's rant finally ran out of > steam, and she slumped into Chris's arms, as he just stood there and > held her tightly. To the CAoL and "friends": /Please note that *my* suggestion was to make humans design things, and only do *some* things where it was *necessary* to build things *now* rather than wait until the resources were available./ /I gave them some items that they'd have to *work* at figuring out. Specificly so that they'd feel that they'd *earned* the knowledge./ /I don't suppose that Hydra can "make it not have happened".../ =========================== Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE Over on Greyworld On Tue, 5 May 1998 23:19:20 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004277 > On Tue, 05 May 1998 22:43:30 -0700 > Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00004268 > >> On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:20:34 PST >> Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004218 >> >> ^Which is best for your success, rescuing the remainder of your >> race from Earth, or leaving them to their fate?^ > > ^Extracting them, if it can be credited to us. It enhances our > racial strength and they will probably side with us. Could be > decisive^ > >> Relayed to a Nemo on Earth, and then through the link. >> >> /We have a possibility of peace with the Greys./ /But we need to get as many of their troops as we can off Earth intact./ Nemo will take it upon himself to have one of himselves alter the probablities so that both Grey and human gunners start having really bad luck shooting at each other (nudging guns with TK, etc). On the Grey thought bands, and comm links: ~Attention! The new Leader {id of rebel leader} can rescue you, but you must cease attacking the humans. Defensive measures only. Rally to {list of rally points} for extraction. Do *not* launch attacks from rally points, doing so will subject you to massive counter attack.~ On human comm channels. "A ceasfire has been reached with a new Grey goverment. Do not fire upon Greys unless fired upon. They are withdrawing to areas where they will await transport. These areas will be marked with purple smoke markers. Any unit attacking such will be subject to massive counter attack." Nemo will try to prevent itchy fingers on either side from hurting anyone. To Roland: ^Sorry for "overstepping" my authority, but I need as many Grey survivors as I can get. And the locals were going for a "final solution". Do you want to contact the local "governments" or should I?^ =========================== Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:36:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE Over on Greyworld On Wed, 6 May 1998 12:10:28 -0700 (PDT) Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00004281 > On Tue, 5 May 1998 23:19:20 PST > Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004277 > > On human comm channels. > > "A ceasfire has been reached with a new Grey goverment. Do not fire > upon Greys unless fired upon. They are withdrawing to areas where > they will await transport. These areas will be marked with purple > smoke markers. Any unit attacking such will be subject to massive > counter attack." /# Cultural Files Indicate that this will result in massive attack On all Purple Smoke Indicators.#/ > To Roland: > > ^Sorry for "overstepping" my authority, but I need as many Grey > survivors as I can get. And the locals were going for a "final > solution". Do you want to contact the local "governments" or should > I?^ /I will send a group of Splits in Grey Form to supply each Grey with a Teleport Beacon, I suggest the Grey Evacuation be Keyed to Those. While the Smoke Beacons act as distraction for the Humans./ =========================== Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE4: That's gratitude for you On Wed, 06 May 1998 10:20:18 Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00004296 >On Tue, 05 May 1998 07:36:32 -0400 >Caprice Said As CAoL Message # 00004262 > >"THOSE BLOODY IDIOTS!" Victoria paced the room, giving an occasional >evil glare at the monitors. Cameras in reconnaissance planes showed >the shining new better-than-modern cities had set up. "As if the >greys weren't bad enough, setting up the domes to keep their traitors >as pets, now we have our allies doing the same thing?!?" > >The explainations of the technology they had been given and the >changes that had been made only seemed to fuel her temper. Roland^2 blinks and looks at Victoria. "Uh, Doc, they're not putting us in domes. We did that to ourselves before the Greys showed up. They just put the domes we had back in and made 'em shinier." >"Are these the kind of idiots who LIKE giving handguns to children?!? >Or does having cosmic powers kill braincells?" Victoria occasionally >picked up an item setting it down again forcefully, but so far >refrained from throwing things. Chris kept near her, not attempting >to calm her down yet, but letting her know she wasn't alone. Roland^2 chuckles and looks at his stomach ruefully. "Ask me again in a year. What's the big woo?" >Victoria turned, pale eyes flashing, "Where to even START... It's >human nature not to value what's given, only what's earned. And >having our war with the Greys turned by a bunch of outsiders was bad >enough without having our noses rubbed in it! If there had been a >transition time, a rebuilding time, the resistance had plans for a >transitional government... as it is, there's nothing to keep people >from drifting away and apart... Roland^2 frowns in thought. "Mmm...hadn't thought of that..." >"Nationalism. Segragationalism. Bully boys and power-mongers will >arise. We finally got rid of it in the resistance the hard way... by >burying any leaders whose true loyalty was to something other than >the cause! Now they'll be nothing to stop such leaders from arising >again. Roland^2's frown vanishes, replaced by a diabolic smile. "Yes th-" he begins, but the Doc's on a roll... >"And the new technology, the new knowledge that's been given us will >feed the wars to come.. There's no knowledge that can't be perverted >into spawning weapons of war... No technology that is pure! I -know-! >It's what I've been doing for the resistance all these years! > >"If some of these powers hang around to enforce the peace... then in >twenty or thirty years the resentment may be enough for a new >resistance, a new war... > >"Then it starts all over again," Victoria's rant finally ran out of >steam, and she slumped into Chris's arms, as he just stood there and >held her tightly. "Uh, Doc?" Roland^2 waited until her tirade was done. "We're just going to waste the Traitors anyway; why don't we just do the same to any 'bully boys' who try to mess things up? As for the tech, we're stuck with all this Grey crap too. It's a problem we would've had either way. At least we won't have people blowing themselves up as much." Roland^2 thinks again briefly. "Our sad little world's taken a beating lately, and they _could_ have done whatever the f*** they did-" he turns a cold gaze on the dragon for a moment- "with something called _subtlety,_ if they wanted to help more than they wanted to boost their egos. But at least this bunch _is_ on our side." Then Nemo sends: >On human comm channels. > >"A ceasfire has been reached with a new Grey goverment. Do not fire > upon Greys unless fired upon. They are withdrawing to areas where > they will await transport. These areas will be marked with purple > smoke markers. Any unit attacking such will be subject to massive > counter attack." Roland^2's eyes widen. "Then again...LIKE HELL! #All units, the Greys are pulling out-waste 'em, but expect heavy resistance-belay that, await further instructions.# Oh, this is just peachy!" He turns to Dr. Haakin. "Our miracle just turned sour-as you can probably tell. Saving fraggin' Greys. You got anything up your sleeve, Doc?" (OOC: OOpsie. Roland 1 & 2 will have a long talk when I get home tonight, but 2 is PISSED. ) =========================== Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE Over on Greyworld On Wed, 06 May 1998 23:36:53 -0700 Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00004301 Leonard Erickson wrote: > On human comm channels. > > "A ceasfire has been reached with a new Grey goverment. Do not fire > upon Greys unless fired upon. They are withdrawing to areas where > they will await transport. These areas will be marked with purple > smoke markers. Any unit attacking such will be subject to massive > counter attack." This is picked up, oddly enough, by Stranger, he's just standing in the church thinking about his next move, when a device on his belt relays the above message. Quickly he picks the device up. /Nemo? Can you boost my signal into subspace band delta echo 99853?/ Assuming he can. {This is Mr Black to anyone who can hear this, codeword Almighty, I say again, Almighty} (OOC: Should be "my" sub fleet and a large minority of other resistance groups, Stranger distributed a number of subspace commo units to them as he travelled around) {The ceasefire signal is genuine, allow the Greys to withdraw. We've won.} Response to the signal is mixed. The more disciplined and battered Earthforces will stand down. Most of the Greys will decide that strength lies in withdrawl, however a number will continue to fight to the bitter end. In particular a detachment around Gaza will continue fighting the Arab forces deployed their until one or the other is annhilated. In places withdrawing Greys will be harrassed and attacked by Earthforces and in a very few places elsewhere Earthforces attempting to disengage will be counterattacked. =========================== Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE4: That's gratitude for you On Wed, 06 May 1998 20:46:56 -0400 Caprice Said As CAoL Message # 00004303 >On Wed, 06 May 1998 10:20:18 >Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00004296 > >>On Tue, 05 May 1998 07:36:32 -0400 >>Caprice Said As CAoL Message # 00004262 *snip* > "Uh, Doc?" Roland^2 waited until her tirade was done. "We're just >going to waste the Traitors anyway; why don't we just do the same to >any 'bully boys' who try to mess things up? As for the tech, we're >stuck with all this Grey crap too. It's a problem we would've had >either way. At least we won't have people blowing themselves up as >much." > Roland^2 thinks again briefly. "Our sad little world's taken a >beating lately, and they _could_ have done whatever the f*** they >did-" he turns a cold gaze on the dragon for a moment- "with >something called _subtlety,_ if they wanted to help more than they >wanted to boost their egos. But at least this bunch _is_ on our >side." Victoria grimaces, "Point made... We should talk to the leaders of the other cells... try to keep the transition to civilian life as ordered as possible... and keep the ties between our cells strong... no isolationism." > Roland^2's eyes widen. "Then again...LIKE HELL! #All units, the >Greys are pulling out-waste 'em, but expect heavy resistance-belay >that, await further instructions.# Oh, this is just peachy!" He turns >to Dr. Haakin. "Our miracle just turned sour-as you can probably >tell. Saving fraggin' Greys. You got anything up your sleeve, Doc?" >(OOC: OOpsie. Roland 1 & 2 will have a long talk when I get home >tonight, but 2 is PISSED. ) Victoria gives the Lensdragon a look, then scowls, "Not that will do us any good... I finished safety testing the Vendetta virus, but never got to determain its effiency against the Greys... and we have no way of distributing it." =========================== Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE4: That's gratitude for you (Long) On Thu, 07 May 1998 02:26:13 -0400 Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00004309 > On Tue, 5 May '98 > Zia Said > > Please ignore this post, it is being recanted so Caprice won't have > to rewrite any of Victoria's rant, all of it. Zia will merely be at > London. Visible. Seen but not heard from for a while. >:> "Then it starts all over again," Victoria's rant finally ran out >:> of steam, and she slumped into Chris's arms, as he just stood >:> there and held her tightly. No matter how Dane, Capirice and Zia decide to resolve their conflicts, the Pseudo-LensT'Skrang's response to Dr. Haakin's, and Zia's rants are as follows "Madam Doctor," begins Dhyrclhanc, hoping that his treating the good doctor for shock will give him some pull here, "Just as I choose to not judge humanity by its worst examples, but by its best, I would similarly, and politely, suggest that you do not judge myself and my group solely on the actions of our more 'overzealous' members." "I willl admit that we are meddlers of the highest order, some of us, unabashedly so -- myself included. If you had seen what we have acomplished in other times and places, I would tend to think you would realize that our net affect is generaly more good that ill. Also as a leader of humanity's movement to throw off the chains of the Greys, you seem to have a low oppinion of a race you have just been instrumental in saving, even if you may not have been responsible the Grey's defeat. While I, too, have often been proud that I wasn't a human when looking at some of your past leaders, as something of a student of history I can say that not all of your leaders were Ghengis Khans, Joeseph Stalins, or Fidel Castros. For that matter, several of my species have caused a great deal of pain and suffering so I do not know which of us, in the end, has ended up with the better deal as far as the species we belong to because of the accident of birth. I also cannot tell you what you will do with this new technology or if, without a doubt you will live long enough to see a beter day; Precognition and Clarvoyance are abilities beyond even my ken. That being said, if there was one thing that other races that I have known marvel at when discussing humanity, it would be your ability to persevere, and even strive, when under the face of adversity. I would also suggest that you refrain from making any more such sweeping generalizations untill you have a few years of Post-Grey occupation life under your belt because what you may be experiencing, first handed, here is the realization of the fact that it is much easier to wage war than it is to wage peace. =========================== Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 04:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE Over on Greyworld On Wed, 6 May 1998 23:18:36 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004313 > On Wed, 6 May 1998 12:10:28 -0700 (PDT) > Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00004281 > >> "A ceasfire has been reached with a new Grey goverment. Do not fire >> upon Greys unless fired upon. They are withdrawing to areas where >> they will await transport. These areas will be marked with purple >> smoke markers. Any unit attacking such will be subject to massive >> counter attack." > > /# Cultural Files Indicate that this will result in massive attack > On all Purple Smoke Indicators.#/ And any unit trying it will get purple smoke dropped on it. :-) Do note that I *didn't* specify the positions to the *Greys* that way. > /I will send a group of Splits in Grey Form to supply each Grey with > a Teleport Beacon, I suggest the Grey Evacuation be Keyed to Those. > While the Smoke Beacons act as distraction for the Humans./ /Thanks. We'll have to move them physically, as the Greys wouldn't believe a teleport back. I've got what looks like a Grey answer to the Dunkirk fleet set up. As you grasped, it's important to make it look like they were able to extract themselves./ =========================== Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 04:33:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE Over on Greyworld On Wed, 6 May 1998 22:58:47 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004315 > On Wed, 06 May 1998 23:36:53 -0700 > Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00004301 > > This is picked up, oddly enough, by Stranger, he's just standing in > the church thinking about his next move, when a device on his belt > relays the above message. > > Quickly he picks the device up. > > /Nemo? Can you boost my signal into subspace band delta echo 99853?/ /Done/ > {The ceasefire signal is genuine, allow the Greys to withdraw. We've > won.} > > Response to the signal is mixed. The more disciplined and battered > Earthforces will stand down. Most of the Greys will decide that > strength lies in withdrawl, however a number will continue to fight > to the bitter end. In particular a detachment around Gaza will > continue fighting the Arab forces deployed their until one or the > other is annhilated. In the cases where the Greys decided to keep fighting, Nemo will relay (or even initiate) messages that boil down to "Ok, they had their chance. You are free to engage this group." > In places withdrawing Greys will be harrassed and attacked by > Earthforces. Nemo will try to blunt the effects of the attacks. > and in a very few places elsewhere Earthforces attempting to > disengage will be counterattacked. On the Grey bands: ~You are in violation of orders! Your commander is relieved, his second will assume command. Allow the humans to disengage.~ Privately to the second in command if he does take over. ~Either place him under close arrest until you reach the homeworld, or disarm him and leave him for the humans. Your option.~ /Stranger, please try to calm down your hotheads, and I'll try to deal with the Grey hotheads./ At the rally points, Nemo has either made use of the remains of Grey facilities, or modified ruined human gear. In a few places, he's had to molded raw rock and metal into facilities. All the facilities have moderate armor, basic Grey life support, food and water. As the last Greys retreat into each, they seal and are boosted into orbit, to await transport to the Grey homeworld. I can't recall if we did much to block *physical* movement off planet. Thus the parking orbits. In orbit they should be relatively safe from most hotheads. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the humans want to file an objection. /Stranger. After you get done with the hotheads, see if you can strike a deal with the human leaders. I'm pretty sure that I'll be able to offer them the Grey Leaders for trial if they let the troops go, and actually go along with a peace treaty./ =========================== Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AAE4: Talking It Over (was: That's gratitude for you) On Thu, 7 May 1998 09:34:37 -0500 Zia Said As CAoL Message # 00004317 On Tue, 5 May 1998 23:01:09 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004278 I recanted most of this message, because of how Caprice stated she'd not enjoy redoing the scene if Zia 'intruded. But to include this, how about if I just say Zia was talking out loud in London as IF she were talking to Victoria, although she doesn't allow the CAoL link to 'echo' it. Since she isn't 'inside' yet, I expect this will do, and Zia can be 'overheard' in the normal fashion by Nemo-London. That way everyone (MAYBE) will be happy. Or at least not annoyed. :-@ > Zia Said As CAoL Message # 00004264 > > booms here. And your wilder element now has much better things to do > than dominate their OWN kind. Space is open to you, finally. > Factories on the moon. Colonies on Mars. Terraforming of Mars will > finish 834 years from now, and it's the survivors of this conflict > that'll do it." Nemo sends privately to Zia: ^Actually, it will take a lot less than that.^ Since he didn't annouce any warnings, first he actually gets 'bounced' back and then after she knows who and what is the situation, she'll allow him in. ^Well, as you like, Nemo, but how long have you been in the fortune seeing biz? For my own curiosity, that is. And it's not going to take humans that long to get there, no, but growing the atmosphere will, because they refuse your help. I believe so at least - do you know any temporal-definite languages, by the way? This discussion is ill-suited to English. Or do you speak math?^ > "And we're not here to be momma and pappa. At least, I'm not. Nemo > may think he can fill that billing; I doubt he does though. I know I > can't. But this is MY homeland, too. No matter where ELSE I've been > to, this is home. You can't take that away from me. So you can take > your outsider labels, and your bitter paranoia and pessimism, and > stick that little fact right in a tender spot." She finishes, not > unkindly and grins wryly as if anticipating a LOT of work. ^I have no intention of being a 'parent' to this species. I am curious to see how they turn out. Think of me more like a classical 'wizard'. If asked he may help. Or he may turn you into a frog for your presumption. Or worse yet, he may give you what you *need* or what you deserve.^ Zia outright cannot conceal a snigger. Not in mockery, but something Nemo said seems honestly to amuse her utterly. She manages to stifle it to sniggering, and damps it as quickly as she can. ^We do need to talk, though.^ Nemo adds. "You mean, TALK, or do you mean" ^Talk? If you mean vocally, I believe it's just as easy for you to move around the planet as I, and I have.. personal reasons to remain in London whilst I have the time to do so. Would you like to talk in person?^ =========================== Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:37:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE Over on Greyworld On Thu, 07 May 1998 23:46:34 -0700 Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00004318 > On Wed, 6 May 1998 22:58:47 PST > Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004315 > >> On Wed, 06 May 1998 23:36:53 -0700 >> Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00004301 >> >> and in a very few places elsewhere Earthforces attempting to >> disengage will be counterattacked. > > On the Grey bands: > > ~You are in violation of orders! Your commander is relieved, his > second will assume command. Allow the humans to disengage.~ > > Privately to the second in command if he does take over. > > ~Either place him under close arrest until you reach the homeworld, > or disarm him and leave him for the humans. Your option.~ Seems to work in many instances. The Grey 'hive mind' seems to be breaking down somewhat, as even more deep rooted survival instincts take over. > /Stranger, please try to calm down your hotheads, and I'll try to > deal with the Grey hotheads./ /OK./ Stranger repeats his message, somewhat more vigorously. /Nemo? Can you port me to wherever the fighting is thickest/ (OOC: Gaza) /I can probably do most good speaking to the field commanders in person/ > At the rally points, Nemo has either made use of the remains of Grey > facilities, or modified ruined human gear. In a few places, he's had > to molded raw rock and metal into facilities. > > All the facilities have moderate armor, basic Grey life support, > food and water. As the last Greys retreat into each, they seal and > are boosted into orbit, to await transport to the Grey homeworld. Cool. > /Stranger. After you get done with the hotheads, see if you can > strike a deal with the human leaders. I'm pretty sure that I'll be > able to offer them the Grey Leaders for trial if they let the troops > go, and actually go along with a peace treaty./ /OK, I'll need to locate a number of field commanders, shouldn't be too difficult, but I never got to the CONUS/ /So I'm not sure who should represent them, I've got the other areas covered, I think, unless any of them have been killed/ > leadership *won't* switch sides, letting Earth have them for trial > is about as good a solution as we can get. Far from perfect, but > eminently *practical*.> =========================== Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:37:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE Over on Greyworld On Thu, 7 May 1998 18:27:03 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004320 > On Thu, 07 May 1998 23:46:34 -0700 > Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00004318 > > /Nemo? Can you port me to wherever the fighting is thickest/ (OOC: > Gaza) /I can probably do most good speaking to the field commanders > in person/ /Try Gaza. You'd think the Grey's were Israelis the way the Arabs are attacking. And this batch of Greys is just as bad./ > /OK, I'll need to locate a number of field commanders, shouldn't be > too difficult, but I never got to the CONUS/ United States> /So I'm not sure who should represent them, I've got > the other areas covered, I think, unless any of them have been > killed/ /I think we have some contacts there./ =========================== Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... On Thu, 07 May 1998 23:34:45 Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00004323 Also, Nemo said: >To Roland: > >^Sorry for "overstepping" my authority, but I need as many Grey > survivors as I can get. And the locals were going for a "final > solution". Do you want to contact the local "governments" or should > I?^ /Don't sweat it; I'm way out of my league,/ Roland replies. /It looks like you handled the situation well, except for the way you talked to the Resistance. There's a good chance that they could take your statement about the purple mist as a-/ Roland^2 smiles a terrible smile. "I think I can arrange that. But first..." #ROLAND YOU LOSER!# 2 sends to Roland. #ANSWER ME YOU BRICKBRAIN!# Roland winces. /-threat,/ he sighs. *Is there a problem, Roland?* #WHEN DID YOU START WORKING WITH THE GREYS!!!# Roland^2 'screams' in Roland's 'ear.' #THE WHOLE DAMN PLANET'S IN CHAOS! WE-# *STOP SHOUTING!!!* Roland sends back, his tenuous patience snapping. The hard, ruthless Roland^2 recoils at Roland's intensity. *Now listen to me, nass-for-brains. _The_Greys_have_ surrendered._ They are a non-threat, except for a reactionary few who, I might add, are fair game.* Roland^2's fervor resumes quickly. #Damn it, they're a hive mind! They won't stop-# *The _Grey_ resistance has won on _their_ world,* Roland explains wearily, realizing that the Terran Resistance was not aware of this. Roland^2 blinks. #You mean _they_ have a resistance?# At Roland's mental nod, Roland^2 smiles again. #Well God, man, why didn't you _say_ so?# *I just di-* Roland begins. "Hey Doc, the _Greys_ have a resistance, can you believe it?" Roland^2 says blithely, his train of though having turned away from Roland and proving that some things are constant. "Maybe we can coordinate with them, try to make something work in terms of helping each other rebuild, doing something about assimilating all this ultratech crap..." Roland smiles as his cognate continues his theorizing. /Looks like Caprice's and my counterparts, along with the respective resistances, have things well in hand. Nemo, if anything goes seriously wrong as a result of our work here, let us know. Other than that, we're ready to leave. =========================== Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 05:40:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... On Fri, 8 May 1998 22:05:56 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004329 > On Thu, 07 May 1998 23:34:45 > Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00004323 > > "Hey Doc, the _Greys_ have a resistance, can you believe it?" > Roland^2 says blithely, his train of though having turned away from > Roland and proving that some things are constant. "Maybe we can > coordinate with them, try to make something work in terms of helping > each other rebuild, doing something about assimilating all this > ultratech crap..." > Roland smiles as his cognate continues his theorizing. /Looks > like Caprice's and my counterparts, along with the respective > resistances, have things well in hand. Nemo, if anything goes > seriously wrong as a result of our work here, let us know. Other > than that, we're ready to leave. /You might let him know that the Grey rebels figure that the Greys that are allowed to leave Earth will go over to their side. That oughta help. Ditto for letting him know that as far as the Greys are concerned, Earth can *have* anybody that doesn't want to side with the new regime, and that includes the former leaders./ =========================== Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 05:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE4: Talking It Over (was: That's gratitude for you) On Fri, 8 May 1998 22:35:46 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004330 > On Thu, 7 May 1998 09:34:37 -0500 > Zia Said As CAoL Message # 00004317 > >> Nemo sends privately to Zia: ^Actually, it will take a lot less >> than that.^ > > Since he didn't annouce any warnings, first he actually gets > 'bounced' back and then after she knows who and what is the > situation, she'll allow him in. ^Well, as you like, Nemo, but how > long have you been in the fortune seeing biz? For my own curiosity, > that is. And it's not going to take humans that long to get there, > no, but growing the atmosphere will, because they refuse your help. > I believe so at least - do you know any temporal-definite languages, > by the way? This discussion is ill-suited to English. Or do you > speak math?^ /After the first hundred millenia, it's no trick at all to foresee the outcome of almost *any* action. Especially when one is *trying* to observe critical events and their outcomes. The probabilities are against their accepting direct help from me. But they favor them taking the devices I gave them at first and rteverse engineering them. They won't see this as accepting help from me, but rather as "stealing" tech from me. The filter field technology is very well suited to terraforming./ /I know several such languages, in addition to the one we use among ourselves. I don't know if we have any in common. And I rather suspect that I speak more math than you do./ >> ^We do need to talk, though.^ Nemo adds. > > "You mean, TALK, or do you mean" ^Talk? If you mean vocally, I > believe it's just as easy for you to move around the planet as I, > and I have.. personal reasons to remain in London whilst I have the > time to do so. Would you like to talk in person?^ ^That would likely be best.^ =========================== Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 09:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: AAE4: Talking It Over (was: That's gratitude for you) On Sat, 9 May 1998 11:14:55 -0500 Zia Said As CAoL Message # 00004331 :/After the first hundred millennia, it's no trick at all to foresee : the outcome of almost *any* action. Especially when one is *trying* : to observe critical events and their outcomes. The probabilities are : against their accepting direct help from me. But they favor them : taking the devices I gave them at first and reverse engineering : them. They won't see this as accepting help from me, but rather as : "stealing" tech from me. The filter field technology is very well : suited to terraforming./ : :/I know several such languages, in addition to the one we use among : ourselves. I don't know if we have any in common. And I rather : suspect that I speak more math than you do./ ^Yes, but.... well, never mind. That isn't worth my getting involved in another go-round. Fine, you may assume my abilities are as feeble as you like. I shan't waste my time, or annoy you. It is strange that the only men who do not underestimate me are husbands or have cognizance of once being women. I might need one more classification to explain Roland, however, if he is human.^ The last is mostly a musing addresses internally. :>> ^I have no intention of being a 'parent' to this species. I am :>> curious to see how they turn out. Think of me more like a :>> classical 'wizard'. If asked he may help. Or he may turn you into :>> a frog for your presumption. Or worse yet, he may give you what :>> you *need* or what you deserve.^ :> :> Zia outright cannot conceal a snigger. Not in mockery, but :> something Nemo said seems honestly to amuse her utterly. She :> manages to stifle it to sniggering, and damps it as quickly as she :> can. If Nemo is very fast (and I think he is) he'll catch an image of him surrounded by a multitude of babies with wet diapers, with Spock's detached expression and pointed ears. He says "Fascinating species." Then the image is banished, far faster than merely organic thought could have done so, from Zia's mind. :>> ^We do need to talk, though.^ Nemo adds. :> :> "You mean, TALK, or do you mean" ^Talk? If you mean vocally, I :> believe it's just as easy for you to move around the planet as I, :> and I have.. personal reasons to remain in London whilst I have the :> time to do so. :Would you like to talk in person?^ : :^That would likely be best.^ ^All right. You know where I am. Come up and see me sometime.^ =========================== Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AAE: Cleaning up the Pieces... On Sat, 9 May 1998 10:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00004332 While searching around the base of the Repaired Pyramid in Egypt Nemisis finds the NEMO Power Tap unexpectedly... at the base of the North Face... /I am still seeking Lord Fuzzy's Lens, However I have found the NEMO Power Tap, Evidently it is a Philosophical construct, much like a Lens.../ Further searching reveals the Lens in the Sand, at the base of the West Face... /I have retrieved The Lens, I have seen no sign that Lord Fuzzy remains in the Ream, Assuming that he somehow departed during his reconstruction, He will not be able to return while the Planetary Wards are Active, Do we still require them? An additional Question is, Do we turn control of them over to the local Government, Or remove them when we leave?/ =========================== Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 19:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE4: That's gratitude for you (Long) On Sat, 09 May 1998 20:20:14 -0400 Caprice Said As CAoL Message # 00004334 OOC: Mail server is whacked at the moment, so not sure if I replied to this already. >On Thu, 07 May 1998 02:26:13 -0400 >Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00004309 > >Also as a leader of humanity's movement to throw off the chains of >the Greys, you seem to have a low oppinion of a race you have just >been instrumental in saving, even if you may not have been >responsible the Grey's defeat. While I, too, have often been proud >that I wasn't a human when looking at some of your past leaders, as >something of a student of history I can say that not all of your >leaders were Ghengis Khans, Joeseph Stalins, or Fidel Castros. For >that matter, several of my species have caused a great deal of pain >and suffering so I do not know which of us, in the end, has ended up >with the better deal as far as the species we belong to because of >the accident of birth. Victoria replies, "It's not a matter of low opinion... It's a matter of pessimism. I always expect and plan for the worst... but I'm also willing to be delightfully surprised when things I am worried about don't come about." >I also cannot tell you what you will do with this new technology or >if, without a doubt you will live long enough to see a beter day; >Precognition and Clarvoyance are abilities beyond even my ken. That >being said, if there was one thing that other races that I have known >marvel at when discussing humanity, it would be your ability to >persevere, and even strive, when under the face of adversity. I would >also suggest that you refrain from making any more such sweeping >generalizations untill you have a few years of Post-Grey occupation >life under your belt because what you may be experiencing, first >handed, here is the realization of the fact that it is much easier to >wage war than it is to wage peace. "Sir, when I want your opinion, I will ask you for it." =========================== Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 19:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... [wrapping up the resistance] On Sat, 09 May 1998 20:20:15 -0400 Caprice Said As CAoL Message # 00004335 >On Thu, 07 May 1998 23:34:45 >Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00004323 > > "Hey Doc, the _Greys_ have a resistance, can you believe it?" >Roland^2 says blithely, his train of though having turned away from >Roland and proving that some things are constant. "Maybe we can >coordinate with them, try to make something work in terms of helping >each other rebuild, doing something about assimilating all this >ultratech crap..." Victoria blinks, "A Grey -resistance-? They're a hive mind!" She stops mid rant, her eyes slightly distant... "Given a certain threshold of individuality... Alright... It's possible, not probable but possible... and with the Meddlers interferring... "Let them retreat, but damned if I'm just going to trust them..." *fade to the sound of good natured squabbling in the depths of resistance HQ* =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 00:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE: Cleaning up the Pieces... On Sun, 10 May 1998 02:44:55 -0400 Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00004337 > On Sat, 9 May '98 Nemisis Said > > While searching around the base of the Repaired Pyramid in Egypt > Nemisis finds the NEMO Power Tap unexpectedly... > at the base of the North Face... > /I am still seeking Lord Fuzzy's Lens, > However I have found the NEMO Power Tap, > Evidently it is a Philosophical construct, much like a Lens.../ > > Further searching reveals the Lens in the Sand, > at the base of the West Face... > /I have retrieved The Lens, > I have seen no sign that Lord Fuzzy remains in the Ream, > Assuming that he somehow departed during his reconstruction, > He will not be able to return while the Planetary Wards are > Active, Do we still require them? > An additional Question is, > Do we turn control of them over to the local Government, > Or remove them when we leave?/ To which Dhyrclhanc responds, \#Milady Nemesis, the local government seems pesimistic in the extream, not to mention extreamly untrusting of the CAoL and what they seem to believe are our "true" motives. As I am current acting XO, I feel it is my responsibilty to see that, in the future we move and act a little more cohesivly. More to the point, seemingly contrary to my original comments, I beleive that the *proper* course of action would be to give control of the wards to the local govenment.#/ =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 00:41:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE4: That's gratitude for you (Long) On Sun, 10 May 1998 03:09:25 -0400 Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00004338 > On Sat, 09 May '98 Caprice Said > >>Dhyrclhanc Said >> >>I also cannot tell you what you will do with this new technology or >>if, without a doubt you will live long enough to see a beter day; >>Precognition and Clarvoyance are abilities beyond even my ken. That >>being said, if there was one thing that other races that I have >>known marvel at when discussing humanity, it would be your ability >>to persevere, and even strive, when under the face of adversity. I >>would also suggest that you refrain from making any more such >>sweeping generalizations untill you have a few years of Post-Grey >>occupation life under your belt because what you may be >>experiencing, first handed, here is the realization of the fact that >>it is much easier to wage war than it is to wage peace. > > "Sir, when I want your opinion, I will ask you for it." "Touche', My dear Doctor." says Dhyrclhanc, as he bows and backs away from Victoria Haakin, "While it would cause me no end of joy to continue this little verbal riposte'," he continues, his voice dripping with sacasm, "my friends and I are about to leave this jeweled sphere and be on our way and, as it it obvious that nothing I can say or do could, or would, change your belief of our sincerity or that I was only here to help, so I will bid you a fond adieu'." Dhyrclhanc then resumes his 21' tall form and activates the C-Bands to reunite him with the rest of his teamates in the CAoL, at the London base. As his form blurs into a blob of red color, and then into nothingness, he bows, again, to the doctor. =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 00:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... [wrapping up the resistance] On Sun, 10 May 1998 03:14:24 -0400 Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00004339 > On Sat, 09 May '98 Caprice Said > > Victoria blinks, "A Grey -resistance-? They're a hive mind!" She > stops mid rant, her eyes slightly distant... "Given a certain > threshold of individuality... Alright... It's possible, not probable > but possible... and with the Meddlers interferring... > > "Let them retreat, but damned if I'm just going to trust them..." > > *fade to the sound of good natured squabbling in the depths of > resistance HQ* Once Dhyrclhanc resolidifies at the London base, he sighs and is heard to say, "Words cannot begin to describe how much I detest those who, if they want my advice, will either beat is out of me, pull it out of with a pair of hot tongs or tell me what it is." =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 01:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... (Long) On Sun, 10 May 1998 03:44:26 -0400 Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00004340 > On Thu, 07 May '98 Roland Said > > (Godzilla-snip, remeber size does matter) };=8) > > Roland smiles as his cognate continues his > theorizing. /Looks like Caprice's and my counter- > parts, along with the respective resistances, > have things well in hand. Nemo, if anything goes > seriously wrong as a result of our work here, let > us know. Other than that, we're ready to leave. > /Any questions?/ "You know," says Dhyrclhanc, suddenly, "I have been mulling over what Dr. Haakin was saying. Warented that she was off base for a Good 75 to 99% of it but still, I for one think that if we continue to activley ramp up our resources and abilities the way we've done in the past we run the risk of becoming exactly what she accused us of being -- meddlers with little or no regard for what it is we are doing." "In addition, since I believe that I'm going to regain my 'Green-Lantern' Ring durring the upcoming tussle with Jadis; the ring being one of the most powerfull artifacts in all the alterverses, created in the DC Universe and powered by the Source, I find that I have no use for this... " he says as he removes his CAoL sigil from inside of his longcoat and lays it down on the ground, "and I will not be partaking of any of Sil's shared energy, unless it is absoutely nessessary." He walks away from the sigil and broacasts quietly /anybody want this?/ Then he continues, verbaly, "However, this does not mean, in anyway, that I am resigning from the CAoL. So, don't anybody think such a thing." As he says this, an armband with the yin-yang and fireplace icon appears on the left arm on his longcoat. The 21' tall Ruby Fire Lensdragon then looks down at his foster brother, leaning on his extended, dragon-sized, Minbari fighting pike, and says, smiling, "So, bro, when do we 'Rock-and-Roll'?" }:=8D =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 06:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE4: Talking It Over (was: That's gratitude for you) On Sun, 10 May 1998 03:47:02 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004342 > On Sat, 9 May 1998 11:14:55 -0500 > Zia Said As CAoL Message # 00004331 > >:> "You mean, TALK, or do you mean" ^Talk? If you mean vocally, I >:> believe it's just as easy for you to move around the planet as I, >:> and I have.. personal reasons to remain in London whilst I have >:> the time to do so. :Would you like to talk in person?^ >: >:^That would likely be best.^ > > ^All right. You know where I am. Come up and see me sometime.^ Nemo appears next to her. "Why not now?" "Perhaps I do underestimate you. Or perhaps you underestimate me. While I am quite human in some ways, I'm nowhere near human in others." "And regardless of *your* abilities, you are far too ready to take offense. I stated that I *suspected* that I know more math than you do. Between my 'age' and the fact that I am in essence *part* of a system of what this language forces me to call 'computers' that cannot fit into a single universe, I would be rather surprised if your knowledge was equal to mine, much less surpassed it." "But that is but a minor detail." "As you let slip beneath London, this world is your home. That explains some of your touchiness. The lack of subtlety of some of my new comrades likely accounts for more. But I think some of it comes from unfounded assumptions that *you* have made." "You seem to have started with the *assumption* that we did not care about this world. To some of the group, it is not as important as their goal. But to *all* of them, people are important. And while I cannot speak for others, I am *always* aware of consequences. "I know when the earthquakes will occur because of the pattern laid upon this world. I know of the disasters the new technologies will cause and the ones they'll prevent. And I know how many deaths every single action I've taken will cause, as well as how many lives will be lived that wouldn't have." "Even inaction has consequences. I do not claim we made the best choices on this world, though many of the others did the best their limited perceptions allowed." "As a Shadow Walker, you know much of this. But I also know the possibilities that branched off with every choice we made or failed to make. And I see the effects that you don't. Things like what happens on the worlds you so conveniently pull items from 'through Shadow' when you want them. When you walk Shadow, you leave worlds behind. I stay behind and watch, even as I leave. And not always in forms perceptible to natives. Given this, which of us do *you* think has a better grasp of 'consequences'?" "Would you care to see the future histories of this world? I can show them to you. All the glory and the horror, all the myriad ways history will go from not merely now, but from the moment we reached this world. Worlds where you completed the Arc in time, and worlds where this entire system was destroyed in the combat. And even worlds where you never returned." An odd, glowing form appears between Nemo and Zia. It seems to occupy more dimensions then *can* exist. And it's shape is constanly shifting, yet ever the same. "Here. Look or not, as you will. But let there be an end to your protests that *I*, at least, don't care. And then mayhap, you'll be willing to be a bit less quick to judge others. I have enough just living with my own judgement of myself." Nemo leaves the strange form hanging in the air, and turns away from Zia. If Zia "scans" the shape, it's what Nemo said. It's as if all the possible histories of this world are there. With the common starting point being the moment Chaos did/did not open a portal to it for the CAoL. It's not a dry recital of facts, it's more like an all-senses recording with the ability to follow *anyone* thru any of the histories. Psis will get impressions of likely thought patterns. And the histories just keep going on, ever branching. Details start getting fuzzy a few millienia along. An ordinary human brain confronted with it might be overwhelmed. Heck, if they weren't careful, the *twins* could be overwhelmed. =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 06:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE: Cleaning up the Pieces... On Sun, 10 May 1998 05:39:33 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004343 > On Sun, 10 May 1998 02:44:55 -0400 > Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00004337 > > To which Dhyrclhanc responds, \#Milady Nemesis, the local government > seems pesimistic in the extream, not to mention extreamly untrusting > of the CAoL and what they seem to believe are our "true" motives. As > I am current acting XO, I feel it is my responsibilty to see that, > in the future we move and act a little more cohesivly. More to the > point, seemingly contrary to my original comments, I beleive that > the *proper* course of action would be to give control of the wards > to the local govenment.#/ /Would you be so kind as to not do that until *after* we get the Grey survivors repatriated?/ =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 09:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: AAE4: Talking It Over On Sun, 10 May 1998 10:46:38 -0500 Zia Said As CAoL Message # 00004344 :On Sun, 10 May 1998 03:47:02 PST :Nemo Said As caol Message # 00004342 : :> On Sat, 9 May 1998 11:14:55 -0500 :> Zia Said As caol Message # 00004331 :> :> ^All right. You know where I am. Come up and see me sometime.^ : :Nemo appears next to her. "Why not now?" Zia shrugs. "No reason I would bring up." : As the 'real' Zia already took off to duke it out with Jadis, and this is a nanotech 'copy' (albeit with a simply fantastic Turing potential and memory capability, but nowhere near an independent sentience, like say the twins or Sil in Terminator form. In fact, the Terminators are far more sentient than this device - the only reason it's hard to detect is it's well modeled after Zia's own personality.) Nemo would most likely, however, given who and what he is, during the course of this 'talk', er, smell a fish at some point? :"And regardless of *your* abilities, you are far too ready to take : offense. I stated that I *suspected* that I know more math than you : do. Between my 'age' and the fact that I am in essence *part* of a : system of what this language forces me to call 'computers' that : cannot fit into a single universe, I would be rather surprised if : your knowledge was equal to mine, much less surpassed it." : :"But that is but a minor detail." "Hold on a moment, please." She looks him up and down once, while 'thinking'. "Underestimate you? I haven't done that recently, but it is possible. But trying to say you're a little bit human is a lot like trying to say someone is a little bit pregnant. Doesn't make sense by my cognate definitions, perhaps you'll have to do a bit of background explaining to fill out that paradigm." "As for my being 'too ready to take offense' that is a subjective value judgment of my self on your part. Imposing your values and virtues on me is wrong, flat out. Even the Arisians were content to leave it at supporting Civilization, and no more. Something you've obviously overlooked. Whenever I've taken up a task with the CAoL, it's been with the underlying basis of concern for someone's well-being. Which, begging your pardon Mr. Super-Human/Computer, doesn't seem to be the basis of your derogatory comment to me. You didn't even bother to phrase it constructively." She adds, keeping her voice light with some cost of effort. Then she nods to herself and offers him a you win gesture, continuing.... "Since you're saying you have more storage capacity than Isaac Asimov's library planet, I'd say you most likely do 'know' more math than I do. I'm only a Professoer Emeritus with twelve papers on various special interest areas of mathematics. And while not exactly human, I was born organic, and still mostly am so. All reasons why I can't be any real peer in your outlook, obviously automatically dropped into a category with all 'lower' sentients." She sighs. "You may have a lot of knowledge, Nemo, but your wisdom doesn't appear to have kept pace with it. I was recently taught that brains are like underwear; everyone has them, but there is no real reason to show them off. I do try not to do it, but it's a new habit, and those take some practice." She then stops talking and lets Nemo carry on. :"You seem to have started with the *assumption* that we did not care : about this world. To some of the group, it is not as important as : their goal. But to *all* of them, people are important. And while I : cannot speak for others, I am *always* aware of consequences." "Er, Nemo? Actually, I didn't. I worked from demonstrated fact. There was talk of Hydra or the Stardragon, or several others, allowing this world to be blow to the oft-quote 'smithereens' rather than letting Jadis escape, or in some cases, perhaps it was meant that it would be done even if only the invaders had prevailed. It was Not Something I Just Assumed. Being touchy about having my home world destroyed to casually further the ends of a bunch of rhino-in-a-china-shop do-gooders, I'll grant you. But I will add that I don't see what is exactly _wrong_ about that 'touchiness'." She smiles, a small and cold one. "And, if you were aware of all consequences, sir, we wouldn't be having this conversation itself." :"As a Shadow Walker, you know much of this. But I also know the : possibilities that branched off with every choice we made or failed : to make. And I see the effects that you don't. Things like what : happens on the worlds you so conveniently pull items from 'through : Shadow' when you want them. When you walk Shadow, you leave worlds : behind. I stay behind and watch, even as I leave. And not always in : forms perceptible to natives. Given this, which of us do *you* think : has a better grasp of 'consequences'?" "That depends if you mean observational recording experience to be the 'grasp' you refer to, or the actual control of fate of these places in Shadow." She smiles as if the point has great validity to her. "A paradox, isn't' it? You say I don't grasp consequences of what I do, incidentally implying a vast insult. I have demonstrated the ability to alter consequences; you say you can predict such and that is somehow better. What good is mere predilection next to actual activity? If you're only going to watch, Mr. Braniac, you would have taken form as a tree. And you've done a damn sight more than watch here, and have stated your intention to extend more than watching activities well into these people's future, while fully aware of their vehement disagreement with that course." :"Here. Look or not, as you will. But let there be an end to your : protests that *I*, at least, don't care. And then mayhap, you'll be : willing to be a bit less quick to judge others. I have enough just : living with my own judgment of myself." : :Nemo leaves the strange form hanging in the air, and turns away from :Zia. "I have no need to look at it, Nemo." It winks back out as she explains. "Time is only the fourth dimension, and all Amberites are at least fifth in aspects of cognizance. I don't protest, Nemo, I advise. If you're too fat-headed to listen, don't blame me. And don't try to guilt me into shutting my mouth and not proponing what I think is right. If your conscience troubles you, Nemo, it's quite unfair to assign the blame for THAT to me - just because it might be troubling you about something akin to what I'm advising against doesn't mean I'm sitting in judgment of you. That's ridiculous - I'd have no way of enforcing a punishment, no law to work from, and no jurisdiction." "But as a ... well, I'm not a member, are I? Well. Then. As a former denizen, and probably still citizen OF this place, I think I have every right to continue it's defense from aggressors. Even if the aggressor is a well-meaning, guilt-ridden, over-portentous man who thinks being intimidating and Big Brotherly can be taken as friendly as humans. And even if that 'defense' can consist of nothing more effective than trying to talk him out of it. Actually, you know, you spoke out against the notions to blow this world up - which confuses the bejeebers out of my, because now you're lambasting with me over the point I spoke against it TOO. Are you sure you're all right? That encounter with the HellGate's energies seems to have... er, created some St. Elmo's Fire effect behind your head, too... you can't like short circuit, can you?" She sounds a bit worried. She grins and shakes her head in disbelief. "I never thought a super computerized evolved higher mind would get into a compare genitalia-length based arguement with me. Maybe you WERE human at one time. You were definitely male, I'm positive of that." "Now, did you really want to talk, or merely give me this lecture? Because I'd expect better precision and less duplicity if you were a computer, although I have some large doubts that is the best description you could give me in English. And... unless you really are trying to hurt me, don't bring up my failure with the Arc again. If the CAoL hadn't ignored my desperate requests to bring up the Wards as backup, my failure wouldn't have allowed Jadis his free rein with the Hellgate. Sure, it's still my mistake. The only reason this world survived is due to some friends who showed up to help. Where was your knowledge of consequence then, great Seer?" "I tried to do my best for all of you, and got ignored when I asked for help. Not that it's stopped me from continuing to offer what aid I can - not that most of your number will work with anyone you can kick around instead. With so far, three notable exceptions, all three of which are in bad straits now. I would that I could aid them, but first there is a Family matter I must clear up." The brunette sighs, tiredly, "I expect Mike and Fuzzy won't require what assistance I could give. I bet they know they'd only have to tell me what, however." =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 09:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE: Cleaning up the Pieces... On Sun, 10 May 1998 09:18:59 -0700 (PDT) Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00004345 > On Sun, 10 May 1998 02:44:55 -0400 > Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00004337 > > To which Dhyrclhanc responds, \#Milady Nemesis, the local government > seems pesimistic in the extream, not to mention extreamly untrusting > of the CAoL and what they seem to believe are our "true" motives. As > I am current acting XO, I feel it is my responsibilty to see that, > in the future we move and act a little more cohesivly. More to the > point, seemingly contrary to my original comments, I beleive that > the *proper* course of action would be to give control of the wards > to the local govenment.#/ \#Confirmed Lord Dhyrclhanc, I will prepare the needed Briefing Packet for them, I will also assemble the Groundside Control Station, In Egypt adjacent to the Pyramid.#\ =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 09:31:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE: Cleaning up the Pieces... On Sun, 10 May 1998 09:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00004346 > On Sun, 10 May 1998 05:39:33 PST > Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004343 > > /Would you be so kind as to not do that until *after* we get the > Grey survivors repatriated?/ /Of Course, After we de-activate the Wards, Ship the Grey Survivors Home, and Depart ourselves, Then I turn over control to the local government, Otherwise there is a chance they would trap us here, We will no longer have Keys to the Wards when The Locals Activate them./ =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 10:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... (Long) On Sun, 10 May 1998 10:36:46 -0700 (MST) Driscoll Said As CAoL Message # 00004347 > On Sun, 10 May 1998 03:44:26 -0400 > Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00004340 > "In addition, since I believe that I'm going to regain my > 'Green-Lantern' Ring durring the upcoming tussle with Jadis; the > ring being one of the most powerfull artifacts in all the > alterverses, created in the DC Universe and powered by the Source, I > find that I have no use for this... " he says as he removes his CAoL > sigil from inside of his longcoat and lays it down on the ground, > "and I will not be partaking of any of Sil's shared energy, unless > it is absoutely nessessary." > > He walks away from the sigil and broacasts quietly /anybody want > this?/ Roscoe trots up to it (and assuming it shifts itself into a manageable size for a non-dragon) carries it over to Driss dropping it at his feet. /Put it on I'm sick of having to relay everything telepathically./ Driss gives Roscoe a quizzical look but reaches down and picks up the Sigil concentrating on it slightly until his mind is coming through it into the link. /Umm, Hello? Testing? Am I using this thing right?/ =========================== Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 11:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... (Long) On Sun, 10 May 1998 11:12:25 -0700 (PDT) Fuzzy Said As CAoL Message # 00004348 > On Sun, 10 May 1998 10:36:46 -0700 (MST) > Driscoll Said As CAoL Message # 00004347 > > Roscoe trots up to it (and assuming it shifts itself into a > manageable size for a non-dragon) carries it over to Driss dropping > it at his feet. > /Put it on I'm sick of having to relay everything telepathically./ > Driss gives Roscoe a quizzical look but reaches down and picks up > the Sigil concentrating on it slightly until his mind is coming > through it into the link. > /Umm, Hello? Testing? Am I using this thing right?/ /Yes, you are, That was DhyrcLhanc's Sigil wasn't it? I suggest, You Do This (), that will reset the power tap feature to either off, or whatever types of energy at whatever amplitudes, Will suit you as defaults. You might want to recomend to Dhyrclhanc that he retain a Sigil, With the Defaults set to none. I think I have figured out how to replicate them, base on what I saw Xzerrion's original creation. I am nearby but only the Sigil can penetrate the Wards. and I do not currently have one./ ... /Now, Just wait one cotton picking moment, How the Blazes am I receiving this without a Sigil... ... Ohhh, The Sigil is an interface to the power reserve The Stardragon setup, The Link is via that, and as a Member of The Dragon Guard I have access to The Stardragon's Power... Maybe I can, get through the Wards, but I won't test it now./ =========================== Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 06:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE4: Talking It Over On Mon, 11 May 1998 04:51:09 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004351 > On Sun, 10 May 1998 10:46:38 -0500 > Zia Said As CAoL Message # 00004344 > >:On Sun, 10 May 1998 03:47:02 PST >:Nemo Said As caol Message # 00004342 >: >:Nemo appears next to her. "Why not now?" > > Zia shrugs. "No reason I would bring up." > > "Hold on a moment, please." She looks him up and down once, while > 'thinking'. "Underestimate you? I haven't done that recently, but it > is possible. But trying to say you're a little bit human is a lot > like trying to say someone is a little bit pregnant. Doesn't make > sense by my cognate definitions, perhaps you'll have to do a bit of > background explaining to fill out that paradigm." > "Since you're saying you have more storage capacity than Isaac > Asimov's library planet, I'd say you most likely do 'know' more math > than I do. I'm only a Professoer Emeritus with twelve papers on > various special interest areas of mathematics. And while not exactly > human, I was born organic, and still mostly am so. All reasons why I > can't be any real peer in your outlook, obviously automatically > dropped into a category with all 'lower' sentients." She sighs. "Zia, I made a statement of perceived fact, *noting* that it was my perception. Quote: 'I know several such languages, in addition to the one we use among ourselves. I don't know if we have any in common. And I rather suspect that I speak more math than you do.' Unquote." "And your response? Quote: 'Fine, you may assume my abilities are as feeble as you like. I shan't waste my time, or annoy you. It is strange that the only men who do not underestimate me are husbands or have cognizance of once being women.' Unquote." "Somehow, my statement of something I *suspected* to be true became a 'statement' saying that I thought your powers were feeble. And triggered a complaint about being underestimated. One does not follow from the other." "And again, just now, you *decided* that because I was bewtter at something that therefore you can't be a 'real peer', and that I consider you and other's 'lower sentients'. Again, an assumption from insufficient data." "Zia, given your demonstrated abilities, you *have* to be smarter than that. Thus my impromptu 'diagnosis'." >:"You seem to have started with the *assumption* that we did not care >: about this world. To some of the group, it is not as important as >: their goal. But to *all* of them, people are important. And while I >: cannot speak for others, I am *always* aware of consequences." > > "Er, Nemo? Actually, I didn't. I worked from demonstrated fact. > There was talk of Hydra or the Stardragon, or several others, > allowing this world to be blow to the oft-quote 'smithereens' rather > than letting Jadis escape, or in some cases, perhaps it was meant > that it would be done even if only the invaders had prevailed. It > was Not Something I Just Assumed. Being touchy about having my home > world destroyed to casually further the ends of a bunch of > rhino-in-a-china-shop do-gooders, I'll grant you. But I will add > that I don't see what is exactly _wrong_ about that 'touchiness'." > She smiles, a small and cold one. "And, if you were aware of all > consequences, sir, we wouldn't be having this conversation itself." "Being aware of consequences, does not mean one is entirely free to choose between them. And one must distinguish between options discussed, and options actually *used*. After all, some of our 'plans' were solely an attempt to force the Grey's hands." >:"As a Shadow Walker, you know much of this. But I also know the >: possibilities that branched off with every choice we made or failed >: to make. And I see the effects that you don't. Things like what >: happens on the worlds you so conveniently pull items from 'through >: Shadow' when you want them. When you walk Shadow, you leave worlds >: behind. I stay behind and watch, even as I leave. And not always in >: forms perceptible to natives. Given this, which of us do *you* >: think has a better grasp of 'consequences'?" > > "That depends if you mean observational recording experience to be > the 'grasp' you refer to, or the actual control of fate of these > places in Shadow." She smiles as if the point has great validity to > her. "A paradox, isn't' it? You say I don't grasp consequences of > what I do, incidentally implying a vast insult. I have demonstrated > the ability to alter consequences; you say you can predict such and > that is somehow better. What good is mere predilection next to > actual activity? If you're only going to watch, Mr. Braniac, you > would have taken form as a tree. And you've done a damn sight more > than watch here, and have stated your intention to extend more than > watching activities well into these people's future, while fully > aware of their vehement disagreement with that course." "And here we have the fundamental difference in our world views. You say you alter consequences. I *see* that you merely chose which of the branching worldlines you will follow. I realize that you have no reason to believe me, but I will tell you anyway." "*All* of the consequences occur. Always. To put it in terms of a question I'm told Amberites often debate, I say that you do not *create* Shadows, you choose from Shadows that already exist, and from those that can exist in the future." > "I have no need to look at it, Nemo." It winks back out as she > explains. "Time is only the fourth dimension, and all Amberites are > at least fifth in aspects of cognizance. "Yes, Shadow requires at least 2 extra temporal dimensions[1]. I'm saying that there are more beyond those. And that's what I was trying to show you there. *All* the choices, even ours, co-exist. You select which branch you wish to be in. I perforce follow all branches. I cannot eliminate branches, but I can try to alter the probabilities, and thus the number of descendant branches of various choices." > I don't protest, Nemo, I advise. If you're too fat-headed to listen, > don't blame me. And don't try to guilt me into shutting my mouth and > not proponing what I think is right. Nemo turns to face Zia again. "That is not my goal. I am trying to point out that your worldview may not be be the only one. And that the other views may be just as valid. And I'm trying to get across the concept that verbally sniping at people does *not* constitute advice, not are people 'fat-headed' for resenting advice delivered in such a manner." > If your conscience troubles you, Nemo, it's quite unfair to assign > the blame for THAT to me - just because it might be troubling you > about something akin to what I'm advising against doesn't mean I'm > sitting in judgment of you. That's ridiculous - I'd have no way of > enforcing a punishment, no law to work from, and no jurisdiction." "Let us say that *any* sentient being has both the power *and* the ability to punish me in the only way I *can* be punished. By reminding me of those who suffer for *any* action I take." Just try to imagine what it would be like to know that a particular action would result in various deaths, injuries, etc, etc and to know the same about every possible variation of the action. The fact that Nemo *can* live with this is why he isn't truly human. Of course, he knows the positive outcomes as well. But any action has both, and nothing this side of a god is going to be comfortable balancing them. > "But as a ... well, I'm not a member, are I? Well. Then. As a former > denizen, and probably still citizen OF this place, I think I have > every right to continue it's defense from aggressors. Even if the > aggressor is a well-meaning, guilt- ridden, over-portentous man who > thinks being intimidating and Big Brotherly can be taken as friendly > as humans. And even if that 'defense' can consist of nothing more > effective than trying to talk him out of it. Actually, you know, you > spoke out against the notions to blow this world up - which confuses > the bejeebers out of my, because now you're lambasting with me over > the point I spoke against it TOO. "'It's not what you said. It's the way you said it.'" Nemo smiles. "It may be old and trite, but it's true." "By the way, I suspect that you *could* be a member if you were a bit more careful about rubbing people the wrong way." > Are you sure you're all right? That encounter with the HellGate's > energies seems to have... er, created some St. Elmo's Fire effect > behind your head, too... you can't like short circuit, can you?" She > sounds a bit worried." "Oh. That." "Someone seems to have decided I qualify for an honor I don't deserve." > She grins and shakes her head in disbelief. "I never thought a super > computerized evolved higher mind would get into a compare genitalia- > length based arguement with me. Maybe you WERE human at one time. > You were definitely male, I'm positive of that." "I have to be as human as possible to serve my purpose. That's why although I have access to those resources, they are somewhat seperate from 'me'." "And for what it's worth, I have no doubt that you are female, Milady." > "Now, did you really want to talk, or merely give me this lecture? > Because I'd expect better precision and less duplicity if you were a > computer, although I have some large doubts that is the best > description you could give me in English. "I do wish to talk. But I also had a duty to try to point out that you have been using counter-productive methods if you truly wish to *influence* people rather than annoy them." > And... unless you really are trying to hurt me, don't bring up my > failure with the Arc again. "My apologies." > If the CAoL hadn't ignored my desperate requests to bring up the > Wards as backup, my failure wouldn't have allowed Jadis his free > rein with the Hellgate. Sure, it's still my mistake. The only reason > this world survived is due to some friends who showed up to help. > Where was your knowledge of consequence then, great Seer?" "I have limits too." > "I tried to do my best for all of you, and got ignored when I asked > for help. "And I am truly sorry. But I wasn't able to give you the aid requested." > Not that it's stopped me from continuing to offer what aid I can - > not that most of your number will work with anyone you can kick > around instead. Nemo speaks gently as he can. "Zia. Stop and think about what you just said. Mentor would be accusing you of 'muddy thinking'. I wouldn't go that far, but I do seem to detect a note of 'They don't see how great I am' in there." "You've trod on some toes and gotten yours stepped on in return. I know It's galling, but perhaps you might try writing it off as a 'fair exchange' and trying again?" > With so far, three notable exceptions, all three of which are in bad > straits now. I would that I could aid them, but first there is a > Family matter I must clear up." "Among other things." Nemo notes dryly. "I look forward to the time when we can have a *real* talk." [1]I'll cheerfully explain this on the tech list if anyone wants to read it. =========================== Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... (Long) On Mon, 11 May 1998 08:29:16 -0700 (MST) Driscoll Said As CAoL Message # 00004353 > On Sun, 10 May 1998 11:12:25 -0700 (PDT) > Fuzzy Said As CAoL Message # 00004348 > > /Yes, you are, > That was DhyrcLhanc's Sigil wasn't it? > I suggest, > You Do This (), > that will reset the power tap feature to either off, > or whatever types of energy at whatever amplitudes, > Will suit you as defaults. > You might want to recomend to Dhyrclhanc that he retain a Sigil, > With the Defaults set to none. > I think I have figured out how to replicate them, > base on what I saw Xzerrion's original creation. > I am nearby but only the Sigil can penetrate the Wards. > and I do not currently have one./ Driss looks at the sigil a moment and follows Nemesis' instructions to shut it firmly off. /I've had more than my fill of "borrowed power" thank you and really don't want to pay the price ever. To Chaos OR The Stardragon./ =========================== Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: AAE4: Talking It Over On Mon, 11 May 1998 11:31:48 -0500 Zia Said As CAoL Message # 00004355 :-----Original Message----- :From: Nemo :Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 8:38 AM : :"And again, just now, you *decided* that because I was bewtter at : something that therefore you can't be a 'real peer', and that I : consider you and other's 'lower sentients'. Again, an assumption : from insufficient data." : :"Zia, given your demonstrated abilities, you *have* to be smarter : than that. Thus my impromptu 'diagnosis'." "Not fundamentally true - I had also your statement that even you, as this rather more limited version I'm conversing with, understand the whole of NEMO. You cannot state how NEMO would consider me, given the unlikely circumstance it would need to, anymore than I can with any true certainty, but I think 'lower sentient' may well be flattery compared to such a truth from it. And, besides, " she frowns a bit, "You are quite a bit harder to fool than the rest, about details." She shrugs, "And I'm not really convinced you're _better_ at math just more knowledgable about the history of same. Math intuition is a talent. Although given the calculation and mentant imagery potential of something like what I imagine NEMO to be..." her eyes slowly go unfocused, and there is a small pause in the conversation, until she forcible shakes her heard and recovers. "I'm just giving myself a headache trying to picture that. Anyway, I can't deal with NEMO. See? I can admit some limitations. I can deal with you here as Nemo, but that's about all I can barely manage as you note." : :"Being aware of consequences, does not mean one is entirely free to : choose between them. And one must distinguish between options : discussed, and options actually *used*. After all, some of our : 'plans' were solely an attempt to force the Grey's hands." "This having what relevance? I was supposed not to object on the basis of it being a bluff? The debate didn't have the nature of an empty threat, to me. I'm usually good at reading people, but of course, not all those involved are ... people, really, either..." :"And here we have the fundamental difference in our world views. You : say you alter consequences. I *see* that you merely chose which of : the branching worldlines you will follow. I realize that you have no : reason to believe me, but I will tell you anyway." "I wonder if you state this as an observed fact, or a believed opinion. That isn't how I've always understood shadow shifting to work. But we would do ourselves well to remember Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle here - I believe that an observer effect might not be unexpected if you were trying to follow how my power actually works mechanistically." :"*All* of the consequences occur. Always. To put it in terms of a : question I'm told Amberites often debate, I say that you do not : *create* Shadows, you choose from Shadows that already exist, and : from those that can exist in the future." "I have a theory that partakes a bit of both, and would fit better, but I should probably hold off until I can make a better explanation of it than I could right at this moment." The brunette muses, not seeming upset at the debate question, or Nemo's taken side, at all. "So, is your rancor resultant from my having done this at all, or that you believe I've done it less efficiently than I should, Nemo?" Amazingly enough, the answer honestly seems to interest her. As if she does care what his opinion is about it. : :"Yes, Shadow requires at least 2 extra temporal dimensions[1]. I'm : saying that there are more beyond those. And that's what I was : trying to show you there. *All* the choices, even ours, co-exist. : You select which branch you wish to be in. I perforce follow all : branches. I cannot eliminate branches, but I can try to alter the : probabilities, and thus the number of descendant branches of various : choices." She grins, "Pruning the World Tree? That'd be beyond even what I _think_ is NEMO's scope. Not that I would be able to say, for sure.I know Shadow is infinite, Nemo. Something Corwin took as so intrinsic to Amberites he never even mentioned it is a sense of direction towards the goal we shadow walk to." She frowns, "That always has troubled me. As far as I can discern, my theory is that the Pattern insets some subset of itself through the likeness of the Blood that drew it, and our own, thus increasing one or two of some special senses to... well, I guess one would have to say infinite reach and comprehension, although just thinking that is making me what to chuck the whole theory. I sure don't _feel_ like anything about me could be infinite. And if it were, how could all the other Amberites have it too? Infinite is inifinte, after all." Mumble mutter. "Never mind. Just don't get me started on this. NONE of what an Amberite can do makes any sense at all. And then, if you watch a Chaos Lord." She rolls her eyes. "Let's talk about NEMO again - I have a better shot of understanding THAT." :"That is not my goal. I am trying to point out that your worldview : may not be be the only one. And that the other views may be just as : valid. And I'm trying to get across the concept that verbally : sniping at people does *not* constitute advice, not are people : 'fat-headed' for resenting advice delivered in such a manner." She starts to answer fast, then stops herself. "I know my 'world view' isn't the only one. I don't even claim any particular relevance to it. I actually don't think you understand my views yet." She considers again, obviously working to keep this nuetral, now. "As for how I do give advice - well. I have trouble not being either too forceful, or saying nothing at all. I am far more comfortable with saying nothing at all. But as you point out, you can't always make the choice you like." "When I try to curtail my speech, and be more... roundabout and political correct, my intuition just crashes in flames. So I constantly walk a knife's edge between offending those I am trying to help... or not helping them as well as I could, if I were to push things. Merlin had the same problem with the court of Arturo." :"Let us say that *any* sentient being has both the power *and* the : ability to punish me in the only way I *can* be punished. By : reminding me of those who suffer for *any* action I take." "If I have done that, then I Do Regret It. That was never my intention. Milk spilled I do not cry over - milk still in the jug is far more effective a concern point." :"'It's not what you said. It's the way you said it.'" Nemo smiles. :"It may be old and trite, but it's true." :"By the way, I suspect that you *could* be a member if you were a bit : more careful about rubbing people the wrong way." Her eyes blaze. "How ignorantly comtemptible you are of me. Just because saving someone trouble of the conscience meant more to me than the REST of you being chummy." The anger dies out with a cold flicker suddenly, and Zia just looks tired again. "Ah, well. If not rubbing people the 'wrong way' is that big a criterion for membership, I'll not further entertain that thought. I have made friends within the CAoL, at least, despite that. And I've actually rather enjoyed myself, except for that awful moment when I mistook and broke the Seal." :> Are you sure you're all right? That encounter with the HellGate's :> energies seems to have... er, created some St. Elmo's Fire effect :> behind your head, too... you can't like short circuit, can you?" :> She sounds a bit worried." : :"Oh. That." : :"Someone seems to have decided I qualify for an honor I don't : deserve." Zia smiles, then says in a completely understanding tone. "Sera DOES get notional, doesn't she? Do you have any idea how impossible it is to convince an angel they might be incorrect? You think _I'm_ stubborn, but boy-oh-boy.... she's not stubborn the same way, but it works ever so much better for her." :"I have to be as human as possible to serve my purpose. That's why : although I have access to those resources, they are somewhat : seperate from 'me'." : :"And for what it's worth, I have no doubt that you are female, : Milady." Zia laughs out loud. "Now that at least, I do proper, eh?" :"I do wish to talk. But I also had a duty to try to point out that : you have been using counter-productive methods if you truly wish to : *influence* people rather than annoy them." "Ah, you see I did want to influence people... and did. By annoying them. And it worked. Well, I didn't get Thorne, but everything else worked, and he would have been a mere bonus tacked on, really. But I do think the reformed Controller was easier for Roland to accept than a helpful Amberite." She grins crookedly. "Besides, being annoyed at me made him at least 13% more effective in the combat against Lady Ariel. Although I couldn't prevent the Shadow Brand's resurrection, worst luck. Even the blacker version of himself didn't trouble him as much as the initial shock of an Amberite being back in his life did. They'd set it up to try and hammer him, you know. I just robbed it of impact. Although living shield isn't my favorite gambit, I have to admit punching bags DO seem to lessen frustration. Except for the punching bag. But I should be giving someone more deserving the role, soon." :> And... unless you really are trying to hurt me, don't bring up my :> failure with the Arc again. : :"My apologies." "Not needed. It's just as you said earlier, and I might well have done the same sort of thing to you, also without true motive to injure. Bygones." :Nemo speaks gently as he can. : :"Zia. Stop and think about what you just said. Mentor would be : accusing you of 'muddy thinking'. I wouldn't go that far, but I do : seem to detect a note of 'They don't see how great I am' in there." : :"You've trod on some toes and gotten yours stepped on in return. I : know It's galling, but perhaps you might try writing it off as a : 'fair exchange' and trying again?" "I do not consider myself great. You're assuming the worst of me, again. I meant that I was still trying to help, and hadn't taken anyone to task for what was an unplanned failure. Is it flattering myself so to note that I have a capacity to be gracious about another's errors? You seemed earlier to think I needed such, but now it's bad for me to have. An odd bit of Catch-22 you've placed me into. Futhermore, I do not think, as many of my kind do, that I'm real and everything but Amber and the Courts is not." "As for Mentor, _they_ are a class triple-A jerk, and could give you lessons on how to manipulate things coldly for their own races' ends. Worse than the Vorlons, I swear. Theycan accuse me of muddy thinking all day long, so can you. I like the way I think, and won't be brainwashed by the likes of anyone, least of all manipulative males with 'good intentions' and little caring. Ah, meaning Mentor, not insulting you there; we didn't exactly have the normal Lensman relationship. Well, of course not. That was obvious, wasn't it?" She winks. "Even Mentor could tell I was female - I think only Clarissa had such a similar difficulty. Of course, they managed to use Chris as a proxy for her training." :> With so far, three notable exceptions, all three of which are in :> bad straits now. I would that I could aid them, but first there is :> a Family matter I must clear up." : :"Among other things." Nemo notes dryly. "Pardon me?" She says, puzzled. :"I look forward to the time when we can have a *real* talk." Zia looks... disappointed, but not surprised. "I thought not. I was hoping this wouldn't occur. Well. If I survive the encounter with Jadis, we shall do such a talk, Nemo. If I don't, I do have one, no, two favors to ask. Tell Mike I say 'thank you' for him saving this world, whenever in the future he does. And..." she looks down at her hands, "if you can recover my wedding band from Jadis without risking anyone's life for it, return it to James or one of the others. Should I fail. I don't expect I will, but then... I have limits, too. Make no bargains about me, however. I'll return on my own alive after the battle, or be already too dead to be concerned about." "If you must tell everyone... and I think it likely you shall knowing the CAoL now, please do not forget to inform Rhiannon that I'll be looking to her father's safety." Zia's doppleganger smiles. "One way or the other, my plots do usually succeed - although sometimes it seems improbable." =========================== Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: AAE4: Talking It Over On Mon, 11 May 1998 13:07:50 -0500 Mike Said As CAoL Message # 00004356 >On Mon, 11 May 1998 11:31:48 -0500 >Zia Said As CAoL Message # 00004355 >"If you must tell everyone... and I think it likely you shall knowing >the CAoL now, please do not forget to inform Rhiannon that I'll be >looking to her father's safety." Zia's doppleganger smiles. "One way >or the other, my plots do usually succeed - although sometimes it >seems improbable." Unobserved (though perhaps not unguessed) a few blocks away, Molly removes a set of headphones and lowers the shotgun mike. [Dammit! Dad, we've got a problem...Alright, I just wanted to make sure you knew. At least, it explains that deja vu feeling we had at the church...Yes, I'll catch up with the Army of Light soon. I dunno, I still wonder about this bunch...Well, I know you like them, but, geez, even you've been hard-pressed for the reason they need you, and I am no where near as tough. Maybe Kim or Franklin, but our brood isn't all that. The twins even less so, though they more than make up for it in brains and brawn.] Molly blushes a bit. [Well, thanks, Mom was actually a good teacher. I question her motives, but she did at least give me some skills in that. And that, too. But those aren't that hard, anyone could learn that. Okay, okay, but I did and they didn't, or at least that we have seen so far, point taken. We'd better move on before Nemo and the Zia droid catch on. That girl, I swear. You're right, Pye, all these plots and plans -are- going to get her killed...Good point, Melissa, it may already have. C'mon Jack, time to amscray. And, Grep, yes, I am packing.] Molly and Jack quietly blink out of existance. =========================== Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:05:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... (Long) On Mon, 11 May 1998 21:47:03 Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00004368 >On Sun, 10 May 1998 05:39:33 PST >Nemo Said As caol Message # 00004343 > >> On Sun, 10 May 1998 02:44:55 -0400 >> Dhyrclhanc Said As caol Message # 00004337 >> >> To which Dhyrclhanc responds, \#Milady Nemesis, the local >> government seems pesimistic in the extream, not to mention >> extreamly untrusting of the CAoL and what they seem to believe are >> our "true" motives. As I am current acting XO, I feel it is my >> responsibilty to see that, in the future we move and act a little >> more cohesivly. /That would be great,/ Roland notes dryly. /If you have any ideas on that score, I'd love to hear them. Let's face it, half this team's strength comes from the fact that we're so utterly unpredictable. Makes the sprockin' thing harder to steer than a Starfury with a broken joystick, though./ >> More to the point, seemingly contrary to my original comments, I >> beleive that the *proper* course of action would be to give control >> of the wards to the local govenment.#/ /Good thinking./ >/Would you be so kind as to not do that until *after* we get the Grey > survivors repatriated?/ Roland blushes. /Better thinking. I think we've done enough here; it looks like the natives can handle the rest. Whatever I may think of Zia personally, I have a feeling that she and the rebels will handle things nicely. Let's book./ =========================== Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 00:41:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... (Long) On Tue, 12 May 1998 00:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00004376 > On Mon, 11 May 1998 21:47:03 > Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00004368 > > Roland blushes. /Better thinking. I think we've done enough here; > it looks like the natives can handle the rest. Whatever I may think > of Zia personally, I have a feeling that she and the rebels will > handle things nicely. Let's book./ Once the Greys being are in orbit, inside the Wards, And the Ground Station has been constructed, /Mr. Black, If you could designate a control crew, I am almost ready to release the Wards/ Assumeing that he does so... Nemisis Releases the Wards, and makes Sure the Greys are outside, and on their way home Then she transports the new Control Crew to the Ground Station, and makes sure they know where the Operations Manuals are stored... > Thence to Jadisland... Nemisis arrives in London, Moment after Fuzzy and Scott, and Just before the Gate to Jadisland is opened =========================== Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:09:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE IV: Pack yer bags... (VLong) On Tue, 12 May 1998 19:19:08 -0400 Caprice Said As CAoL Message # 00004391 >On Tue, 12 May 1998 04:10:04 -0400 >Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00004379 > >> Roland blushes. /Better thinking. I think we've done enough >> here; it looks like the natives can handle the rest. Whatever I may >> think of Zia personally, I have a feeling that she and the rebels >> will handle things nicely. Let's book./ > >/Do you not mean Legion, bro?/ Legion says through the link /We were not planning on staying... we haven't been here long enough to add this Victoria to us permenantly, and we'd like to keep it that way!/ =========================== Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE4: Talking It Over On Tue, 12 May 1998 15:12:20 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00004392 > On Mon, 11 May 1998 11:31:48 -0500 > Zia Said As CAoL Message # 00004355 > >:From: Nemo >:Sent: Monday, May 11, 1998 8:38 AM > >:"And again, just now, you *decided* that because I was bewtter at >: something that therefore you can't be a 'real peer', and that I >: consider you and other's 'lower sentients'. Again, an assumption >: from insufficient data." >: >:"Zia, given your demonstrated abilities, you *have* to be smarter >: than that. Thus my impromptu 'diagnosis'." > > "Not fundamentally true - I had also your statement that even you, > as this rather more limited version I'm conversing with, understand > the whole of NEMO. You cannot state how NEMO would consider me, > given the unlikely circumstance it would need to, anymore than I can > with any true certainty, but I think 'lower sentient' may well be > flattery compared to such a truth from it. And, besides, " she > frowns a bit, "You are quite a bit harder to fool than the rest, > about details." "Given that you have the *potential* to become as NEMO is, even if you never excercise the option, I think you rate rather more than that." > She shrugs, "And I'm not really convinced you're _better_ at math > just more knowledgable about the history of same. Math intuition is > a talent. Although given the calculation and mentant imagery > potential of something like what I imagine NEMO to be..." her eyes > slowly go unfocused, and there is a small pause in the conversation, > until she forcible shakes her heard and recovers. "I'm just giving > myself a headache trying to picture that. Anyway, I can't deal with > NEMO. See? I can admit some limitations. I can deal with you here as > Nemo, but that's about all I can barely manage as you note." "If I and my other selves try thinking too hard about ourselves without using NEMO we get a headache. Never mind thinking about our greater self." :-) >:"Being aware of consequences, does not mean one is entirely free to >: choose between them. And one must distinguish between options >: discussed, and options actually *used*. After all, some of our >: 'plans' were solely an attempt to force the Grey's hands." > > "This having what relevance? I was supposed not to object on the > basis of it being a bluff? The debate didn't have the nature of an > empty threat, to me. I'm usually good at reading people, but of > course, not all those involved are ... people, really, either..." "Point taken. I was trying to differentiate between options being discussed, and options being seriously considered. But it's true that you might might not see the delimiters in the same places as I do." >:"*All* of the consequences occur. Always. To put it in terms of a >: question I'm told Amberites often debate, I say that you do not >: *create* Shadows, you choose from Shadows that already exist, and >: from those that can exist in the future." > > "I have a theory that partakes a bit of both, and would fit better, > but I should probably hold off until I can make a better explanation > of it than I could right at this moment." The brunette muses, not > seeming upset at the debate question, or Nemo's taken side, at all. > "So, is your rancor resultant from my having done this at all, or > that you believe I've done it less efficiently than I should, Nemo?" > Amazingly enough, the answer honestly seems to interest her. As if > she does care what his opinion is about it. "More that you appear to be quicker to judge than to allow yourself to be judged." > She grins, "Pruning the World Tree? That'd be beyond even what I > _think_ is NEMO's scope. Not that I would be able to say, for sure.I > know Shadow is infinite, Nemo. Something Corwin took as so intrinsic > to Amberites he never even mentioned it is a sense of direction > towards the goal we shadow walk to." She frowns, "That always has > troubled me. As far as I can discern, my theory is that the Pattern > insets some subset of itself through the likeness of the Blood that > drew it, and our own, thus increasing one or two of some special > senses to... well, I guess one would have to say infinite reach and > comprehension, although just thinking that is making me what to > chuck the whole theory. I sure don't _feel_ like anything about me > could be infinite. And if it were, how could all the other Amberites > have it too? Infinite is inifinte, after all." Mumble mutter. "Never > mind. Just don't get me started on this. NONE of what an Amberite > can do makes any sense at all. And then, if you watch a Chaos Lord." > She rolls her eyes. "Let's talk about NEMO again - I have a better > shot of understanding THAT." "It's not so much 'pruning', since we cannot remove branches. But we can try to make some more probable, thus causing them and their resultants to 'grow'. Same number of branches, but one set is 'fatter' than the others. Like this:" Nemo produces an image of a fractal branch structure, then another next to it where the same branches exist, but some branches take up more space than others, while the others take up less. >:"'It's not what you said. It's the way you said it.'" Nemo smiles. >:"It may be old and trite, but it's true." >:"By the way, I suspect that you *could* be a member if you were a >: bit more careful about rubbing people the wrong way." > > Her eyes blaze. "How ignorantly comtemptible you are of me. Just > because saving someone trouble of the conscience meant more to me > than the REST of you being chummy." The anger dies out with a cold > flicker suddenly, and Zia just looks tired again. "Ah, well. If not > rubbing people the 'wrong way' is that big a criterion for > membership, I'll not further entertain that thought. I have made > friends within the CAoL, at least, despite that. And I've actually > rather enjoyed myself, except for that awful moment when I mistook > and broke the Seal." "Not rubbing people the wrong way isn't a criterion, it's just that it makes it easier for them to notice that you qualify. After all, they are 'only human'." This last bit delivered with heavy irony. >:"I look forward to the time when we can have a *real* talk." > > Zia looks... disappointed, but not surprised. "I thought not. I was > hoping this wouldn't occur. Well. If I survive the encounter with > Jadis, we shall do such a talk, Nemo. If I don't, I do have one, no, > two favors to ask. Tell Mike I say 'thank you' for him saving this > world, whenever in the future he does. And..." she looks down at her > hands, "if you can recover my wedding band from Jadis without > risking anyone's life for it, return it to James or one of the > others. Should I fail. I don't expect I will, but then... I have > limits, too. Make no bargains about me, however. I'll return on my > own alive after the battle, or be already too dead to be concerned > about." "I have *many* lives to risk. All my own." > "If you must tell everyone... and I think it likely you shall > knowing the CAoL now, please do not forget to inform Rhiannon that > I'll be looking to her father's safety." Zia's doppleganger smiles. > "One way or the other, my plots do usually succeed - although > sometimes it seems improbable." "If your actions *weren't* improbable, you'd hardly be a child of Amber, now would you. For whatever it may be worth, I give you my blessing. Perhaps Sera is right and it will mean something." ===========================