Action, Adventure, Excitement, Part 6c The Cosmic Engineer - ch. 7 Subject: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:30:01 -0700 (PDT) On 07-18-2000 at 15:24:16 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008553 When the Monument seems Complete, Elder Ma'Rett and Elder Ba'Foi, Each Leads one of the Scout teams there. Joe may come along or stay to teach pool to the Teens. It seems that there is a way to keep groups of, Youngsters together on the Roads, As the Elders seem to be driving the Rate of Movement for all. *This Monument/Museum contains the Complete Histories, and Recorded Knowledge of the Races that were Extinguished, In the War between The Union and The Federation.* *You may Peruse it at will.* *The Heads, Seconds, and an Aid for each of our Philosophies, Will be joining us.* Indeed they are finding their seats as you come in. A Total of 18 Natives. Ma'Rett contacts a remote of Aurora's that I assume arrived, *These are the ones who may have something to say.* **{Time Space Locations and Identities}** These people are Wide-Band Telepaths, They Telepath the way BlackBolt Talks, Except that it is Band-Width not Amplitude... No wonder they don't use it near their Children, The incompletely matured mind could be overwritten accidentally. Sort of like being handed a Universe with the Specifics Highlighted. * In the Case of The Federation Versus The Union, The Federation Held Three Galaxies, The Federation government was a rigid hierarchic system, But saw to it that All Citizens had Education and Opportunity, The Union Held Four Galaxies, The Union government Absolutely controlled Interstellar Travel, But Claimed only limited authority within member systems, Most worlds had Non-Star Capable System Defense Fleets, A fair percentage also had Licensed Interstellar Merchant Marines. The War was Initiated by Ambitious Middle Management types On Both sides seeking to expand their Personal Influence and Power. We finally managed to uncover that Datum after it was all over. After the Near Complete Destruction of one of the Union Galaxies, The Blue Horizon was created from the resultant Black Whole. The Crew of the Blue Horizon then, Destroyed every Technological Planet in Federation space, and Most planets that showed sign of any contact with those, Technological Planets... The Facts as to What happened, Are already Established. We Accuse our Ancestors of: The Destruction of 12,087,568 Inhabited Life Zone Planets, Including The Genocides of 19,781,985 Sentient Species, and The Extermination of 25,872,856 Pre-Sentient Species, That Would have evolved Sentience by now. An Atrocity so Heinous that the Right to Existance of any Race willing to commit it Must be called into question. This level of destruction was largely unnecessary. Not all of the Victims were even Members of the Federation. Of the Refuges within The Blue Horizon, 83% are still inhabited by the descendants of the Crew. An Additional 12% are currently inhabited by Sentient Forms, Which Evolved Since the Incidents in Question, These last should be Exempt from the findings of this Judgment. * A Nemisis Split arrives, and Instantly is wrapped in some kind of Security Field The Eldest (an Ancient Computer) Directly addresses Stranger * Is This Device Known to You? Its Functional Structure resembles, An Ecological Reconstruction Drone, Of a type That was Turned into a Weapon During the War.* The Elders of Refuge 0 ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:18:45 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:51:26 -0700 Rio Said As CAoL Message # 00008554 >On 07-18-2000 at 15:24:16 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008553 > >When the Monument seems Complete, >Elder Ma'Rett and Elder Ba'Foi, >Each Leads one of the Scout teams there. Rio follows, and listens to the narrative. >We Accuse our Ancestors of: > >The Destruction of 12,087,568 Inhabited Life Zone Planets, Including >The Genocides of 19,781,985 Sentient Species, and >The Extermination of 25,872,856 Pre-Sentient Species, > That Would have evolved Sentience by now. > > An Atrocity so Heinous that the Right to Existance of any Race >willing to commit it Must be called into question. "That's an easy one," comments Rio quietly. "At the risk of going straight for the archtypal discussion-ender, if Hitler had left an infant child, would anyone really think it was right to punish that child for what ol' Adolph did?" She looks around. "Is that all we were supposed to decide? Geez, if these people hadn't learned better since then, we wouldn't be having this trial, would we?" she grins. Cutting to the chase ;-), Rio ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:17:38 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:43:29 EDT SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008555 >In a message dated 7/18/00 1:32:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >FailSafe writes: Lost the original...pigybacking. >>"Speaking of dead," Rio mutters to no one in particular, "I don't >>remember this group's other adventures dragging out like this. Do >>X-windows edit out the boring parts?" She sits in the grass >>(assuming there's some nearby) and puts on her MP3 player's >>headphones. "Call me when something happens, would you?" Roger, standing nearby but out of Rio's line of sight, just stands around for the next few minutes, wearing that perfectly bland expression that those who know well would instantly recognize...and start running. Once confident that Rio is totally absorbed in her music, one wing (the white, feathery ones) sloooowly arches around behind her, avoiding casting any shadows. The downy tip of one pinion feather slips between two braids juuust baaaarely makes contact with the tiny hairs covering One Particular Spot on the back of her neck..... (What? I can't let he get *bored,* now can I? ) ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:15:32 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:21:22 EDT SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008556 >In a message dated 7/18/00 7:19:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >rio writes: > >She looks around. "Is that all we were supposed to decide? Geez, if >these people hadn't learned better since then, we wouldn't be having >this trial, would we?" she grins. Roger looks...slightly less assured. He seems to be remembering something unpleasant. "Good and evil," he begins slowly, "have always been, in my estimation, qualities that adhere only to the actions and intents of individuals -- for variable values of 'individual,' that is, given the multiple forms which sentient life takes across the multiverse. Justice and punishement, therefore, can only be applied to those individuals who took an active and knowleageable role in what was done. And even in the commission of a crime such as you describe, for many individuals there will inevitably be certain mitigating factors..." His voice trails off slowly, as his eyes unfocus back along some unkowable corridor of time. He is silent for a long moment before returning to here-and-now with a rather violent shake. "Ah...at any rate, I generally do not see how punishment can be visited upon individuals who were not present or even extant at the time the crime was committed, or upon a species as a whole, unless there are some kind of unique special circumstances." His eyes fix on the Elder, neutral, deep, revealing nothing. "Are there such circumstances in this case?" ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:15:37 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:36:17 -0700 Rio Said As CAoL Message # 00008557 >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:43:29 EDT >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008555 > > Once confident that Rio is totally absorbed in her music, one wing >(the white, feathery ones) sloooowly arches around behind her, >avoiding casting any shadows. The downy tip of one pinion feather >slips between two braids juuust baaaarely makes contact with the tiny >hairs covering One Particular Spot on the back of her neck..... OOC: But Rio isn't wearing braids. To quote from her entrance into the Place, "...long hair somewhere between dark blonde and light brunette pulled to a ponytail on one side..." > (What? I can't let he get *bored,* now can I? ) Ye're a wicked man, and I bet you've forgotten her Big Brother is right there in the vicinity.... ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:21:34 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:35:26 -0700 Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008558 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008553 > >*This Monument/Museum contains the Complete Histories, > and Recorded Knowledge of the Races that were Extinguished, > In the War between The Union and The Federation.* > >*You may Peruse it at will.* Aurora scans the records quickly, but thoughly. It takes two whole seconds. >Ma'Rett contacts a remote of Aurora's that I assume arrived, >*These are the ones who may have something to say.* > >**{Time Space Locations and Identities}** Aurora exerts herself. Space and time warp suddenly, and a number of individuals appear in the "court" in time stasis bubbles. *As they are required for examination, I will release the stasis bubbles. When you are done with each, I will suppress the memory of these proceeding, and return them to the exact point in time that I pulled them from.* >A Nemisis Split arrives, and > Instantly is wrapped in some kind of Security Field > >The Eldest (an Ancient Computer) Directly addresses Stranger >* Is This Device Known to You? > Its Functional Structure resembles, > An Ecological Reconstruction Drone, > Of a type That was Turned into a Weapon During the War.* *This is part of an associate/assistant of Fuzzy designated Nemisis. It/she (OOC: the gender is correct?) is a friend.* Aurora offers. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:09:11 -0700 (PDT) On 07-18-2000 at 19:59:54 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008559 >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:35:26 -0700 >Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008558 > >Aurora exerts herself. Space and time warp suddenly, and a number of >individuals appear in the "court" in time stasis bubbles. *As they >are required for examination, I will release the stasis bubbles. When >you are done with each, I will suppress the memory of these >proceeding, and return them to the exact point in time that I pulled >them from.* From Elder Ma'Rett *Thank You* >*This is part of an associate/assistant of Fuzzy designated Nemisis. >It/she (OOC: the gender is correct?) is a friend.* Aurora offers. * Interesting, There is no reference to such a being in the Snippets Archive, I will have to Question it...* To/From The Nemisis Split ^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^, ^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^,^#{}#^ The Tempo-Gravitic Bubble goes Down... ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:38:01 -0700 (PDT) On 07-18-2000 at 20:31:29 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008560 >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:21:22 EDT >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008556 > > "Ah...at any rate, I generally do not see how punishment can be >visited upon individuals who were not present or even extant at the >time the crime was committed, or upon a species as a whole, unless >there are some kind of unique special circumstances." His eyes fix on >the Elder, neutral, deep, revealing nothing. "Are there such >circumstances in this case?" *If Punishment had be visited on those who Actively Crewed, The Blue Horizon following the end of their Actions, All of the Races that participated would be extinct. There were far too few who choose not to participate, To be a Geneticaly Viable Population. This ship was Originally crewed by the Few Survivors, Of the Galaxy which was Collapsed. This is viewed by some as the True Root of the Atrocity.* *Knowing their own Judgment to be Flawed Our Ancestors Choose, To Wait for an outside Judgment.* Elder Ba'Foi ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:08:03 -0700 (PDT) On 07-18-2000 at 21:02:27 Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00008561 Walking over to touch The Stranger ^Stranger, I have an Urgent Report for Relay Via Lens Only, The Fuzzy these people have heard of is Not Lord Fuzzy, The Snippets Archive The Eldest Referenced Reveals Much. They set a Computer program to Recursively extracting, References to Fuzzy from every Religious and Philosophical Text, They Then set another to compiling all of the References Acquired, The Result is a More Detailed Description of, The Origin and Fate of *FUZZY*, Than we were originally given, There is also Information about The Plan and Design of The Key Stone, Which became the Lord Fuzzy we knew. They know nothing of the Reset, From the point of view of the Data Available to them, That occurred in the earliest moments of the Multiverse. I do not know if we should correct, The Mistaken impression they have received from what was said.^ ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:49:37 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:31:19 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00008562 >On 07-18-2000 at 15:24:16 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008553 > >We Accuse our Ancestors of: > >The Destruction of 12,087,568 Inhabited Life Zone Planets, Including >The Genocides of 19,781,985 Sentient Species, and >The Extermination of 25,872,856 Pre-Sentient Species, > That Would have evolved Sentience by now. > > An Atrocity so Heinous that the Right to Existance of any Race >willing to commit it Must be called into question. /I was hoping to be wrong./ sends Nemo. >Of the Refuges within The Blue Horizon, > 83% are still inhabited by the descendants of the Crew. > An Additional 12% are currently inhabited by Sentient Forms, > Which Evolved Since the Incidents in Question, > These last should be Exempt from the findings of this Judgment. /That adds up to 95%./ >A Nemisis Split arrives, and > Instantly is wrapped in some kind of Security Field > >The Eldest (an Ancient Computer) Directly addresses Stranger >* Is This Device Known to You? > Its Functional Structure resembles, > An Ecological Reconstruction Drone, > Of a type That was Turned into a Weapon During the War.* ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:41:34 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:36:42 EDT SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008563 >In a message dated 7/18/00 10:16:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >rio writes: > >OOC: But Rio isn't wearing braids. To quote from her entrance into >the Place, "...long hair somewhere between dark blonde and light >brunette pulled to a ponytail on one side..." Dang! Memory fault. Okay, forget the "braids" part. >> (What? I can't let he get *bored,* now can I? ) > >Ye're a wicked man, and I bet you've forgotten her Big Brother is >right there in the vicinity.... On the contrary! Eric has repeatedly shown that he won't intervene unless Roger&Rio are doing something that might affect the mission. But I *hear* his teeth grinding all the way over here... Even Eric isn't totally immune to "Big-Brother Syndrome".... ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:46:25 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:39:02 -0700 (PDT) Ziactrice Roaming Said As CAoL Message # 00008564 >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:21:22 EDT >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008556 > > "Ah...at any rate, I generally do not see how punishment can be >visited upon individuals who were not present or even extant at the >time the crime was committed, or upon a species as a whole, unless >there are some kind of unique special circumstances." His eyes fix on >the Elder, neutral, deep, revealing nothing. "Are there such >circumstances in this case?" /Heh./ Ziactrice says, mildly amused. /I take it you disagree with the Arisians wiping out the Eddore race? Death, after all, is always a decision that takes out descendants, as well as the current criminal./ /Besides, I'm not sure they want justice, exactly. I think they want some form of punishment leveled so that at SOME future time, after they've done pennance, the guilt they obviously feel can be laid aside. Or...to use Rio's example, how would YOU feel if you were say, Hitler's _son_? Is there anything you could ever do, to lift that terrible knowledge off your soul?/ The petite Amberite shakes her head, choosing not to share any hint of her thoughts regarding say, Eric's 'sucking dry' entire Shadows of 'reality', the war between her family and the Courts of Chaos, or all the various 'shadow people' who have been used as army and cannon fodder in the various conflicts. /Never mind. I must still be off-balance. I'll go get checked up./ She rolls out of bed, obviously there won't be much resting after thoughts like that, and wanders off to see what this place has in the way of a sickbay. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:16:47 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:23:55 -0700 Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008568 >On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:25:20 -0700 (PDT) >Mike Knight Said As CAoL Message # 00008538 > > Tinkerbell Seven offers, /Maybe we're taking this a bit too >seriusly, guys. Isn't this, like, supposed to be a test of our >judgement after all? We might mention our objections with this case >when a ruling is made, but since its purpose is to see if we're safe >custodians of the Cosmic Engineer, judging this would be better than >a real, live case. I certainly wouldn't wanna be handed over to some >guy who might or might not be a qualified judge. I mean, seems like >ya oughta have a right to a judge who actually knows the law he's >supposed to be judging you by. > /Paradoxes 'n' stuff aside, this is, like, totally about our >ethics and nothin' about the actual laws here. That they're using a >screwup outta their own history's probably like an object lesson or >something./ /Alas, grand-niece (if I'm not being presumptuous), I think that the verdict will be all-too-real. We may have to talk them out of self-genocide. Racial suicide? Grife. I wish there weren't a need for a word like that. /At any rate, I think we'll end up with the Cosmic Engineer either way, for serving as 'impartial' judges. Makes it all the more important to get it right, IMO./ ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:16:53 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:33:31 -0700 Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008569 >On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:39:02 -0700 (PDT) >Ziactrice Said As CAoL Message # 00008564 > >>On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:21:22 EDT >>SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008556 >> >> "Good and evil," he begins slowly, "have always been, in my >>estimation, qualities that adhere only to the actions and intents of >>individuals -- for variable values of 'individual,' that is, given >>the multiple forms which sentient life takes across the multiverse. >>Justice and punishement, therefore, can only be applied to those >>individuals who took an active and knowleageable role in what was >>done. And even in the commission of a crime such as you describe, >>for many individuals there will inevitably be certain mitigating >>factors..." His voice trails off slowly, as his eyes unfocus back >>along some unkowable corridor of time. He is silent for a long >>moment before returning to here-and-now with a rather violent shake. Roland 'smiles' across the link in a 'that's my boy' sort of way, while providing a mental anchor for Roger should he need it. >> "Ah...at any rate, I generally do not see how punishment can be >>visited upon individuals who were not present or even extant at the >>time the crime was committed, or upon a species as a whole, unless >>there are some kind of unique special circumstances." His eyes fix >>on the Elder, neutral, deep, revealing nothing. "Are there such >>circumstances in this case?" *More specifically,* Roland sends, *have any individuals, or groups, attempted to actively perpetuate these crimes, or duplicate them? For that matter, how long--oof--* there's a brief pause. *--has your race lived here, peacefully, without harming others?* >/Heh./ Ziactrice says, mildly amused. /I take it you disagree with >the Arisians wiping out the Eddore race? Death, after all, is always >a decision that takes out descendants, as well as the current >criminal./ /Genocide,/ Roland says (almost) evenly, /rules out the possibility of _any_ member of that race showing any possible redeeming qualities. While I can't speak for my son, I _don't_ agree with the annihilation of the Eddorans. I can only hope that a species as advanced as the Arisians examined the possibilities throughout the entire war, looking for another option. Given their cold disregard for anything other than the 'big picture,' however, I doubt it. They themselves state on more than one occasion that they are not 'good,' nor the Eddorans 'evil.' Gah./ >/Besides, I'm not sure they want justice, exactly. I think they want >some form of punishment leveled so that at SOME future time, after >they've done pennance, the guilt they obviously feel can be laid >aside. Or... to use Rio's example, how would YOU feel if you were >say, Hitler's _son_? Is there anything you could ever do, to lift >that terrible knowledge off your soul?/ /Don't ask what some of _my_ ancestors have done,/ Roland says coldly. /Zia, you're an _Amberite,_ for Light's sake. I don't believe in original sin, my reaction on meeting you notwithstanding./ >/Never mind. I must still be off-balance. I'll go get checked up./ >She rolls out of bed, obviously there won't be much resting after >thoughts like that, and wanders off to see what this place has in the >way of a sickbay. Sim-Roland follows obediently until told otherwise. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:16:59 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:35:22 -0700 The Hunter Said As CAoL Message # 00008570 >On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:36:42 EDT >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008563 > > On the contrary! Eric has repeatedly shown that he won't intervene >unless Roger&Rio are doing something that might affect the mission. > But I *hear* his teeth grinding all the way over here... Even >Eric isn't totally immune to "Big-Brother Syndrome".... Oh, he's not immune, but something like this...he won't just allow it, he'll _enjoy_ watching Rio get a little lesson in the perils of complacency... ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:25:52 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 04:03:32 -0400 (EDT) Shadow Said As CAoL Message # 00008571 >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:21:22 EDT >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008556 > > "Good and evil," he begins slowly, "have always been, in my >estimation, qualities that adhere only to the actions and intents of >individuals -- for variable values of 'individual,' that is, given >the multiple forms which sentient life takes across the multiverse. >Justice and punishement, therefore, can only be applied to those >individuals who took an active and knowleageable role in what was >done. And even in the commission of a crime such as you describe, for >many individuals there will inevitably be certain mitigating >factors..." His voice trails off slowly, as his eyes unfocus back >along some unkowable corridor of time. He is silent for a long moment >before returning to here-and-now with a rather violent shake. Rhia, from where she had been 'listening in' adds, /Twice, in all my travels, have I run into races which could truly be called evil, from cradle to grave. The first one killed me, the second one I never let know of my presence. I let father handle them. This seems not to be the case here, though. A response from a racial survival instinct, most likely. Overresponse./ > "Ah...at any rate, I generally do not see how punishment can be >visited upon individuals who were not present or even extant at the >time the crime was committed, or upon a species as a whole, unless >there are some kind of unique special circumstances." His eyes fix on >the Elder, neutral, deep, revealing nothing. "Are there such >circumstances in this case?" OOC: Been so long since I've posted, I had to go look up the symbols for it. On an interesting note, do an altavista search for +caol and +jadis. I got three pages. Is 'jadis' truly Gaelic for 'once'? ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 07:03:18 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 06:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Ziactrice Roaming Said As CAoL Message # 00008574 >On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:33:31 -0700 >Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008569 > /Genocide,/ Roland says (almost) evenly, /rules out the >possibility of _any_ member of that race showing any possible >redeeming qualities. While I can't speak for my son, I _don't_ agree >with the annihilation of the Eddorans. I can only hope that a species >as advanced as the Arisians examined the possibilities throughout the >entire war, looking for another option. Given their cold disregard >for anything other than the 'big picture,' however, I doubt it. They >themselves state on more than one occasion that they are not 'good,' >nor the Eddorans 'evil.' Gah./ /No one can 'be' good or evil. We're real, while good and evil are abstract concepts. Even I can't be an abstract!/ Ziactrice says, thoughtfullly. /I wonder why you think I approve of the Arisians? It was more a choice of 'evils', for me, than otherwise./ > /Don't ask what some of _my_ ancestors have done,/ Roland says >coldly. /Zia, you're an _Amberite,_ for Light's sake. I don't believe >in original sin, my reaction on meeting you notwithstanding./ Zia has been practicing. Even being an empath as she is, only the briefest hint of how deep that comment cuts her is on the Lenslink before she drops it utterly for a very noticeable time to recover. Almost a full three seconds later, she comes 'back'. /I have never asked./ She state drivenly, in a tone that would be cold even on the surface of Pluto. /I know what I am, even though you insist on telling me. Repeatedly. Although it sounds more like epithet than else. Do you even realize how _hypocritical_ your words sound?!?/ Her jaw tightens, and she drops the Lenslink and shakes her head. "Gads, I'm so tired of that." Her face hardens with fresh resolve. "Bugger him!" Finally escapes her, in a strong lower London accent. "I have work to do, and I'm not letting such ... silliness, stop me." Upper class British accent, this last comes out in. She doesn't appear to be doing the accent changes intentionally. She opens it again, as completely back to 'normal' already as someone with her skill can portray. >>/Never mind. I must still be off-balance. I'll go get checked up./ Then she strips off her Lens. Zia lays the dead-black dormant Lens on a bedside table, as this place is fairly secure such dangerous items can be left in the open. >She rolls out of bed, obviously there won't be much resting after >thoughts like that, and wanders off to see what this place has in the >way of a sickbay. > > Sim-Roland follows obediently until told otherwise. "Y'know, Simmie, sometimes it just don't pay to GO to bed, even more than getting out of it in the morning." ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:13:20 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:01:46 -0700 Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008575 Responding as quickly as possible before going to Comic-Con (I'll respond to 'Amazing Simulation' when we get back...hoo-boy)... >On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 06:54:30 -0700 (PDT) >Ziactrice Said As CAoL Message # 00008574 > >/No one can 'be' good or evil. We're real, while good and evil are >abstract concepts. Even I can't be an abstract!/ Ziactrice says, >thoughtfullly. /I wonder why you think I approve of the Arisians? It >was more a choice of 'evils', for me, than otherwise./ /I don't think that that's what the Lensmen were asking, nor what the Arisians were responding as. Given the actions of the Eddorans, the Arisian reaction is understandable. That doesn't mean I like it, though./ >> /Don't ask what some of _my_ ancestors have done,/ Roland says >>coldly. /Zia, you're an _Amberite,_ for Light's sake. I don't >>believe in original sin, my reaction on meeting you >>notwithstanding./ > >Zia has been practicing. Even being an empath as she is, only the >briefest hint of how deep that comment cuts her is on the Lenslink >before she drops it utterly for a very noticeable time to recover. >Almost a full three seconds later, she comes 'back'. And even Roland notices, for all his usual obliviousness. /Hitler's...son. Grife. I goofed, didn't I?/ >/I have never asked./ She state drivenly, in a tone that would be >cold even on the surface of Pluto. /I know what I am, even though you >insist on telling me. Repeatedly. Although it sounds more like >epithet than else. Do you even realize how _hypocritical_ your words >sound?!?/ Her jaw tightens, and she drops the Lenslink and shakes her >head. "Gads, I'm so tired of that." /Zia-!/ Roland sighs. /Yep. I goofed. Morgan, drop a 16 ton block on me later, ok-/ The Paladin (riding a giant black dragon) obliges. "Sloppy, shining one," Black Paladin replies, leering through his helmet. "You-" He stops, both rider and dragon recoiling at the expression visible through the Defender's faceplate. "Paladin...I don't have _time_ for this." zzzzKOW!!! >"Y'know, Simmie, sometimes it just don't pay to GO to bed, even more >than getting out of it in the morning." "I have gotten that impression," Sim-R says, deadpan. Then he wavers. "Zia! Zia, I'm _sorry!_ That's not what I meant! What I meant was--well--you." If given a chance/request to explain, or continue, he does. "Every Amberite I ever met was a manipulative bastard at _best._ Julian was the nicest of them, and he stuck a sword through my gut once 'just to see what would happen.' Then I met you. "Zia, you have never been anything less than courageous, polite, and loyal, even when you've felt that the feeling was not returned in kind. I meant what I said--I don't believe in original sin, and you're _not_ responsible for the actions of your family." Roland smiles ruefully. "Some of my ancestors, as I've mentioned, are no winners. I sincerely hope I'm not going to be held accountable for _them_ if/when I find out what lies beyond real death." (There'd be more, but I am literally out of time. Feel free to add some eloquent words here. ;^) ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:39:18 -0700 (PDT) On 07-20-2000 at 19:29:58 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008578 >On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 20:33:31 -0700 >Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008569 > > *More specifically,* Roland sends, *have any individuals, or >groups, attempted to actively perpetuate these crimes, or duplicate >them? For that matter, how long--oof--* there's a brief pause. *--has >your race lived here, peacefully, without harming others?* * Other than occasional minor strictly internal sectarian violence, We have waited patiently, self restricted to this Refuge, For the Expected Reaction from the Powers or The Matrix, Since the End of the war {~0.5 giga-T-Years} ago. One of the reasons we have asked for your assistance is, We are unsure that our race will survive, The fall of Technology at then beginning of the next Age, Which we are expecting within a generation or Two at the most.* ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 15:05:51 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 23 Jul 100 21:31:41 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008580 >On 07-18-2000 at 15:24:16 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008553 > >We Accuse our Ancestors of: > >The Destruction of 12,087,568 Inhabited Life Zone Planets, Including >The Genocides of 19,781,985 Sentient Species, and >The Extermination of 25,872,856 Pre-Sentient Species, > That Would have evolved Sentience by now. > > An Atrocity so Heinous that the Right to Existance of any Race >willing to commit it Must be called into question. "Will anyone speak in defence of your ancestors?" ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 17:20:34 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 24 Jul 100 00:51:34 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008581 >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:35:26 -0700 >Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008558 > >>FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008553 >> >>*This Monument/Museum contains the Complete Histories, >> and Recorded Knowledge of the Races that were Extinguished, >> In the War between The Union and The Federation.* >> >>*You may Peruse it at will.* > >Aurora scans the records quickly, but thoughly. It takes two whole >seconds. Stranger will take considerably longer I suspect, but at some stage he will take the time to go through it, although possibly not as thoroughly. >Aurora exerts herself. Space and time warp suddenly, and a number of >individuals appear in the "court" in time stasis bubbles. *As they >are required for examination, I will release the stasis bubbles. When >you are done with each, I will suppress the memory of these >proceeding, and return them to the exact point in time that I pulled >them from.* "Good. Who do we have? If possible I would like to speak initially to whoever was 'captain' of the Horizon when they started their counterattack." ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 17:20:39 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 23 Jul 100 21:09:29 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008582 >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:51:26 -0700 >Rio Said As CAoL Message # 00008554 > >"That's an easy one," comments Rio quietly. "At the risk of going >straight for the archtypal discussion-ender, if Hitler had left an >infant child, would anyone really think it was right to punish that >child for what ol' Adolph did?" "You'd be surprised." >She looks around. "Is that all we were supposed to decide? Geez, if >these people hadn't learned better since then, we wouldn't be having >this trial, would we?" she grins. "It's more complicated than that. Their ancestors wiped out over 40 million sentient and pre-sentient species and who knows how many non-sentient species - trillions at a guess. That's not a thing to be dismissed lightly and it must not be allowed to happen again. Compare them to the person with a personality disorder who goes to the doctors and says "I'm sick, you've got to restrain me before I hurt someone". Are they likely to repeat their offence? Probably not, but that's not good enough. Definitely not is the answer we're looking for." ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 17:20:44 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 23 Jul 100 20:40:41 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008583 >On 07-18-2000 at 21:02:27 >Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00008561 > >Walking over to touch The Stranger > >^Stranger, > I have an Urgent Report for Relay Via Lens Only, > The Fuzzy these people have heard of is Not Lord Fuzzy, > The Snippets Archive The Eldest Referenced Reveals Much. > They set a Computer program to Recursively extracting, > References to Fuzzy from every Religious and Philosophical Text, > They Then set another to compiling all of the References Acquired, > The Result is a More Detailed Description of, > The Origin and Fate of *FUZZY*, > Than we were originally given, > There is also Information about > The Plan and Design of The Key Stone, > Which became the Lord Fuzzy we knew. > They know nothing of the Reset, > From the point of view of the Data Available to them, > That occurred in the earliest moments of the Multiverse. > I do not know if we should correct, > The Mistaken impression they have received from what was said.^ ^I'm not sure I entirely understand the difference, their Fuzzy became the Fuzzy we knew? Hmmm. I guess we probably should clarify things for them, we're hardly worthy to judge them if we allow them to misunderstand what's going on.^ ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 21:42:51 -0700 (PDT) On 07-23-2000 at 21:19:11 Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00008585 >On Sun, 23 Jul 100 20:40:41 +0100 (BST) >Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008583 > >^I'm not sure I entirely understand the difference, their Fuzzy >became the Fuzzy we knew? Hmmm. I guess we probably should clarify >things for them, we're hardly worthy to judge them if we allow them >to misunderstand what's going on.^ ^No, Their Fuzzy Sacrificed itself to Buy them A Chance to live again, When Their Universes were Dieing. Ours was a Altered copy of the nine Cat Changlings, Which became their Fuzzy.^ ^I will try to make it Clear, Originally there were nine alternate "Fuzzy's", All were caught in Massive Reality Fault type Disasters, Their presence caused those Disasters to link between Universes, Amplifying the effects of the Disasters to the point that, All nine universes Would be Destroyed, However they also Fused into a Single Trans-Cosmic Entity, Referred to as *FUZZY*... The Entity *FUZZY* Altered the Time Scale of the Disasters, To give enough time to Cast the ReCreation Spell, Informed every living thing in those Universes How to Cast it, Then Sacrificed it's Existence (Energy/Spirit/Everything), To make it Possible for the ReCreation Spell to Work... The ReCreation Spell needed a Delay, If it had gone off immediately the ReCreation would have been, Caught in the Disaster and Destroyed as well, The Powers of the Nine Universes Designed the Delay Segment, As an Extremely Adaptive LifeForm, Able to adapt to and Survive in Any Environment... Another Team Designed the Mind of the LifeForm, To Mimic the Knowledge, Skills and Abilities, Of all of the Nine original Fuzzy Alternates, Since they needed it to be Mortal, They used an Interleave rather than a Summation The Designs were then Created as A Being, By the Most powerful of the 'Creator' Gods in the Nine Universes, As a Partial Payment to the Memory of *FUZZY*, The Aspect of the Matrix that Causes References to this, To appear in any attempt to Publish, Any Religious or Philosophical Text, Is another Partial Payment... That Delay Component of the Recreation Spell, Was the Lord Fuzzy that We Knew, His Death was intended to Trigger the ReCreation, Nothing of Him was expected to survive beyond this Function.^ >the situation> ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:08:55 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:30:30 -0700 Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008586 /*"Elder Ma'Rett, there MAY be another path that we can take. There is another device, which is also a part of Fuzzy, which controls and prevents Paradox from happening. When a paradox would occure, this device causes a potential nexus called a paradox gem to come into being. This paradox gem contains all the potential of the space/time in question with the timeline following the alternate path. If a being such as myself were to take such a gem into the void between universes, the gem would 'actuallize' resulting in two universes which were identical up to the point of Paradox. Attempting to alter the past in this fashion by definition both fails and succeeds, since in the original universe events unfold as they would have without the interferrance, or rather, the interferrance fails in that universe despite any and all powers applied. The device, called The Game of IF, is another way to actualize a paradox gem. When the device is used, the potential universe is 'swapped' with the existing universe. When The Game of IF is used, the interferrance CAN succeed, IF the Guardians of IF will permit its use. I am forbidden from directly attempting this as it would in any case create a paradox for ME. YOU however should be able to do this without incurring The Stardragon's wrath. I would be happy to assist you in contacting the Guardians if you wish to try."*/ Aurora offers. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:13:59 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:18:27 -0700 Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008587 >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008556 > > "Good and evil," he begins slowly, "have always been, in my >estimation, qualities that adhere only to the actions and intents of >individuals -- for variable values of 'individual,' that is, given >the multiple forms which sentient life takes across the multiverse. >Justice and punishement, therefore, can only be applied to those >individuals who took an active and knowleageable role in what was >done. And even in the commission of a crime such as you describe, for >many individuals there will inevitably be certain mitigating >factors..." His voice trails off slowly, as his eyes unfocus back >along some unkowable corridor of time. He is silent for a long moment >before returning to here-and-now with a rather violent shake. /*"I have known several races that were so noxious, and genetically so, that to protect other less powerful races, it was necessary to destroy that noxious race, root and branch. On a few occasions to save the rest of a universe it was necessary to destroy entire galaxies. Though in those cases either the planets of other races were displaced, or all other races in those galaxies had already been destroyed by the noxious race involved. Never have I given an order with less desire to have it carried out, but in all those cases, all projections had those races consuming all other races in the macro cosmos, like a cancer. It was necessary to excise the cancer."*/ Aurora states. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:48:00 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:30:41 -0700 Rio Said As CAoL Message # 00008589 >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:18:27 -0700 >Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008587 > >/*"I have known several races that were so noxious, and genetically >so, that to protect other less powerful races, it was necessary to >destroy that noxious race, root and branch. On a few occasions to >save the rest of a universe it was necessary to destroy entire >galaxies. Though in those cases either the planets of other races >were displaced, or all other races in those galaxies had already been >destroyed by the noxious race involved. Never have I given an order >with less desire to have it carried out, but in all those cases, all >projections had those races consuming all other races in the macro >cosmos, like a cancer. It was necessary to excise the cancer."*/ >Aurora states. "If this race is a cancer," Rio comments, looking around at their peaceful surroundings, "the it sure has been in remission for a while. It's not like they're still warlike or threatening. I mean, I see your point, I just don't think it applies in this case." ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:48:05 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:40:50 -0700 Rio Said As CAoL Message # 00008590 >On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:43:29 EDT >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008555 > > Roger, standing nearby but out of Rio's line of sight, just stands >around for the next few minutes, wearing that perfectly bland >expression that those who know well would instantly recognize...and >start running. > Once confident that Rio is totally absorbed in her music, one wing >(the white, feathery ones) sloooowly arches around behind her, >avoiding casting any shadows. The downy tip of one pinion feather >slips between two braids juuust baaaarely makes contact with the tiny >hairs covering One Particular Spot on the back of her neck..... Rio shivers slightly, then smiles. Without turning around, she sends on a "private" channel on the link, ^Later, babe.^ Her "tone" ought to have a similar effect on Roger as the feather had on her . OOC: You don't think she'd "tune out" like that without setting up some "premonition" type Time effect, do you? OOC2: I'm assuming that shortly after this is when they're taken to where the "trial" is happening. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:55:53 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 11:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Mike Knight Said As CAoL Message # 00008591 >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:30:41 -0700 >Rio Said As CAoL Message # 00008589 > >"If this race is a cancer," Rio comments, looking around at their >peaceful surroundings, "the it sure has been in remission for a >while. It's not like they're still warlike or threatening. I mean, I >see your point, I just don't think it applies in this case." /I think I'm starting to see what they're worried about./ Mike sends, /Essentially, I'm thinking of these people as Minbari. In the universe where I first met Tink's grandmother, Earth and Minbar first made contact with each other and got immediately into a war over one of the Earth gunners mistaking the Minbari's gunports being open as a sign of aggression instead of respect, as the Minbari saw it. That initial firing killed the Minbari leader and, as the Minbari put it, "We went insane, together, as a race." That quality, of a shared insanity that leads to a holy war is still present in the Minbari. Their near-genocidal crusade against Earth has made them tired of war in the period from which I know them, certainly, but it's still existant in them. They might go insane again over something else, they might not, it's hard to say./ /What I see this group afraid of is that shared insanity having been passed down from their ancestors. They fear going out into the Matrix Cosm and, due to some unknowable cause, being overcome by another destructive racial fervor. Sort of like bees, disturb the hive and get swarmed by a group that won't give up until they've won utterly. Which isn't a bad summation of the Minbari, either, right down to individuals, in my opinion./ /So what we see here,/ the ex-timelord says, summing up, /Is the peaceful hive. What we haven't seen is the hive disturbed, though, they're apparently quite willing to show us. At least I gather that's the prosecution's case./ /What we may have to ascertain, then, to probably state the obvious/ the technomage amends, /Is 'Is this still a potentially-violent race, and if so, is it so much worse than any other race running around in the Matrix Cosm?' Barring this ship of theirs, I'm half inclined to say 'No, it isn't any worse than anyone else.' If we can't condone voluntary genocide on their part, I'd say that leaves us with two options; exile from this vessel, I'd suggest a Dyson Sphere or three, should be simple with the 'Engineer,' then destroy the Blue Horizon, and the more poetic object lesson: Stay here and continue on exactly as they are, keep this ship out of the hands of those who would make the same mistakes as they have and, should we be successful with the restoration of Fuzzy and have the components afterwards, keep the 'Cosmic Engineer' safe and ensure it's continued use for ethical purposes.' It'd be a tall order, but it's essentially the task they're performing now, and it would seem to good effect./ /I hesitate to suggest they try and undo their misdeeds," Michael notes, /The fact that they're still mourning them this long afterward would suggest it was a crucial turning point for their race, and a beneficial one, at that. Though, I'd be curious to know how it would have turned out if they hadn't done it. But, there I go, being 'greater good' utilitarian again./ Tinkerbell sends in mock pain, /Head hurting .... too ... much ... information ... can't digest all ... at once./ /Alright, ya wiseacre, I'll stop now,/ Mike sends the little timelady, /Nice 'Shatner', btw./ Tink giggles in reply, /That must be it, Shatner was in pain all through the Star Trek series./ ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 20:20:22 -0700 (PDT) On 07-25-2000 at 20:14:03 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008593 >On Sun, 23 Jul 100 21:31:41 +0100 (BST) >Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008580 > > "Will anyone speak in defence of your ancestors?" One of the Elders Stands *I am "Ge'Fram", I will speak of Shock induced psychosis, Attendant on seeing Every world you had ever seen Destroyed.* He Sits Down Another Elder Stands *I am Ji'Errt, I will Speak of the proper treatment of Terrorists, And those who support them.* He Sits Down Ba'Foi Stands *I am Ba'Foi, I will speak of The Rod of Despair, And the Price it seems to demand of its users.* He Sits Down ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:20:11 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 22:21:06 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00008594 >On 07-25-2000 at 20:14:03 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008593 > >One of the Elders Stands >*I am "Ge'Fram", > I will speak of Shock induced psychosis, > Attendant on seeing Every world you had ever seen Destroyed.* >He Sits Down > >Another Elder Stands >*I am Ji'Errt, > I will Speak of the proper treatment of Terrorists, > And those who support them.* >He Sits Down > >Ba'Foi Stands >*I am Ba'Foi, > I will speak of The Rod of Despair, > And the Price it seems to demand of its users.* >He Sits Down /I am willing to speak for them also, if you think they will accept it and if you feel it won't adversely affect the situation./ sends Nemo on a tight link to the CAoLers present for the trial. ================================= Subject: AAE6cJustice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 211745 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 202050 -0700 Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008616 >On 07-20-2000 at 192958 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008578 > >>On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 203331 -0700 >>Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008569 >> >> *More specifically,* Roland sends, *have any individuals, or >>groups, attempted to actively perpetuate these crimes, or duplicate >>them? For that matter, how long--oof--* there's a brief pause. *-- >>has your race lived here, peacefully, without harming others?* > >* Other than occasional minor strictly internal sectarian violence, > We have waited patiently, self restricted to this Refuge, > For the Expected Reaction from the Powers or The Matrix, > Since the End of the war {~0.5 giga-T-Years} ago. > One of the reasons we have asked for your assistance is, > We are unsure that our race will survive, > The fall of Technology at then beginning of the next Age, > Which we are expecting within a generation or Two at the most.* Roland nods, satisfied but distracted. *About what I was expecting...though considerably longer a time. Nass, that's a longer time than I can even begin to fathom.* Then... >On Sun, 23 Jul 100 210929 +0100 (BST) >Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008582 > >>On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 155126 -0700 >>Rio Said As CAoL Message # 00008554 >> >>She looks around. "Is that all we were supposed to decide? Geez, if >>these people hadn't learned better since then, we wouldn't be having >>this trial, would we?" she grins. > >"It's more complicated than that. Their ancestors wiped out over 40 >million sentient and pre-sentient species and who knows how many non- >sentient species - trillions at a guess. That's not a thing to be >dismissed lightly and it must not be allowed to happen again. Compare >them to the person with a personality disorder who goes to the >doctors and says "I'm sick, you've got to restrain me before I hurt >someone". Are they likely to repeat their offence? Probably not, but >that's not good enough. Definitely not is the answer we're looking >for." *Not entirely true, old friend,* Roland replies, still considering the point. He frowns. *I think it's more like, "My entire family's sick, you've got to quarantine us all." Do we just take it on that person's say-so that the whole family's actually got the disease? In this case, is there even a disease? Sentient beings of any species are capable of vast nobility and diabolic depravity.* Roland pauses a moment. *Did _every_ member of your species participate in this slaughter? I think that that's a _very_ important point--grounds for dismissal, IMNSHO, if there were a) dissenters and/or b) large numbers who would not participate.* Then... >On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 114808 -0700 (PDT) >Mike Knight Said As CAoL Message # 00008591 > > /I think I'm starting to see what they're worried about./ Mike >sends, /Essentially, I'm thinking of these people as Minbari. In the >universe where I first met Tink's grandmother, Earth and Minbar first >made contact with each other and got immediately into a war over one >of the Earth gunners mistaking the Minbari's gunports being open as a >sign of aggression instead of respect, as the Minbari saw it. That >initial firing killed the Minbari leader and, as the Minbari put it, >"We went insane, together, as a race." That quality, of a shared >insanity that leads to a holy war is still present in the Minbari. >Their near-genocidal crusade against Earth has made them tired of war >in the period from which I know them, certainly, but it's still >existant in them. They might go insane again over something else, >they might not, it's hard to say./ Roland "hmmphs." /The Minbari have a racial guilt complex, Mike, if they have any sort of 'insanity' as a whole. It was a brutal, ugly war, but there were plenty of Minbari--Delenn included, and she _started_ the sprocking thing--who opposed it./ He continues to consider...he's missing something, he's sure of it... Then the light bulb goes off. The Roland-split vanishes from the bridge of the Blue Horizon and appears in Refuge 0. (Note, since it's been a whileRoland splits look like his "Defender" mode.) His right arm unfolds and shifts, becoming a hologram projector. *"I'm not sure that we've been asking the right question here. Any species is capable of acts of barbarism."* The projector shows some of humanity's less wonderful moments. (If anyone really _wants_ selected highlights of the history of human evil, I'll provide them. I don't think that's necessary, though.) Just for spice, he throws in the appearance of the Silhouette, one of the avatars of Malice the Adversary, and the fall of Atlantis. *"Perhaps as important a question, if not more important, is what _good_ can your race do?"* Again, some major highlights. _These_ I'll hit a few of. Sidharta Gautama (the Buddha). Thermopylae (Three hundred Spartans against tens of thousands of Persians). Yeshua bar Joseph (the Christ). Jeanne d'Arc. Harriet Tubman. The French Resistance. Mahatma Gandhi. Pick a firefighter--ANY firefighter--and multiply by the millions who have done the same. *"You have waited and studied and lived in peace for millions of years. Surely your people must now have much to teach younger, more violent races. Would you destroy that possibility because of a past long dead?"* Roland turns to his friends. */"I became the leader of the Callahanian Army of Light because I could not stand by and allow genocide take place, even in a good cause. I want you all to look at these people. They quietly await judgement for a crime that took place so long ago that the humans among us can't imagine the time frame. If we were to judge the human race by their standards--indeed, almost any race which has had a member join the CAoL--I doubt we would fare much better. Humanity, certainly, is capable of multiple genocide, especially if we bring non-sentient species into the mix, as Stranger did--how many are wiped out on my home Earth daily? I say that what we should provide here is not judgement...but justice. What say the rest of you?"/* ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 09:24:19 -0700 (PDT) On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 06:18:30 -0700 Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008619 >Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008616 > Roland turns to his friends. */"I became the leader of the >Callahanian Army of Light because I could not stand by and allow >genocide take place, even in a good cause. I want you all to look at >these people. They quietly await judgement for a crime that took >place so long ago that the humans among us can't imagine the time >frame. If we were to judge the human race by their standards--indeed, >almost any race which has had a member join the CAoL--I doubt we >would fare much better. Humanity, certainly, is capable of multiple >genocide, especially if we bring non-sentient species into the mix, >as Stranger did--how many are wiped out on my home Earth daily? I say >that what we should provide here is not judgement...but justice. What >say the rest of you?"/* /*"Justice is a concept that I seek whenever possible, Roland. But in this case justice is not an option. For justice to occur, the guilty party must be punished, or make restitution. The guilty parties are long dead, and are no longer capable of any remedial action at all. They can neither be punished, or make restitution. As powerful as I am, even I would not be able to restore all the lives that they caused to die. I doubt even The Stardragon could (OOC: no way, at least not without creating a whopper of a paradox). These people are not requesting judgement for an individual, or even a subgroup of their race. They are asking if a race that could do such things should be allowed to continue to be. The mere fact that they are making such a request gives me hope for them. The few times that I have had to order a complete genocide, the subjects of that genocide were congenitally incapable of thinking themselves guilty of any wrong and so saw no need to change their choosen modes of behavior. We must wait and see -why- their ancestors acted as they did, and see if it is a congenital behavior that will be repeated under the proper circumstances. Rather than just the misguided and poorly chosen actions of a few. If it is, we must see if the genetic flaw can be corrected, without destroying the species. If it can, great. If it can't, we must see if it is possible to isolate them and their descendants, forever. If all these potential courses of action fail, then we will have no other choice but to extinguish their flame. This is the task they have proposed."*/ Aurora says sadly. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 14:13:52 -0700 (PDT) On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:52:11 -0700 Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008627 >On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 06:18:30 -0700 >Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008619 > >/*"Justice is a concept that I seek whenever possible, Roland. But in >this case justice is not an option. For justice to occur, the guilty >party must be punished, or make restitution. The guilty parties are >long dead, and are no longer capable of any remedial action at all. >They can neither be punished, or make restitution. As powerful as I >am, even I would not be able to restore all the lives that they >caused to die. I doubt even The Stardragon could (OOC: no way, at >least not without creating a whopper of a paradox). Roland pauses a moment, eyes flickering. /*" 'Jus*tice (jus'tis) n. 1. Moral rightness; equity. 2. Honor; fairness. 3. The administration and procedure of law. 4. A judge. [< L justus, JUST.]' --American Heritage Dictionary, July 1982 printing."* (Serves me right for not being more precise. This split thing really comes in handy sometimes, though.) *"It should come as no surprise that I was thinking of the first two definitions. I don't think that anyone would believe it fair, equitable, or honorable to punish descendants for the crimes of their extremely distant ancestors."*/ >These people are not requesting judgement for an individual, or even >a subgroup of their race. They are asking if a race that could do >such things should be allowed to continue to be. Roland looks sour for a moment. /*"And we have the right to decide this because...?"*/ He looks at the gathered residents. /Unless the entire species agrees to the request--not difficult to determine, given the scale of their telepathy--it isn't our call./ >The mere fact that they are making such a request gives me hope for >them. The few times that I have had to order a complete genocide, the >subjects of that genocide were congenitally incapable of thinking >themselves guilty of any wrong and so saw no need to change their >choosen modes of behavior. Roland looks even more sour. /*"We're talking about sentient species here? Free will, self-aware, the whole nine yards?"*/ He rubs his forehead in a manner reminiscent of someone with a headache. /Sprocking Mentor,/ he mutters mentally, probably to himself. >We must wait and see -why- their ancestors acted as they did, and see >if it is a congenital behavior that will be repeated under the proper >circumstances. Rather than just the misguided and poorly chosen >actions of a few. If it is, we must see if the genetic flaw can be >corrected, without destroying the species. If it can, great. If it >can't, we must see if it is possible to isolate them and their >descendants, forever. If all these potential courses of action fail, >then we will have no other choice but to extinguish their flame. This >is the task they have proposed."*/ Aurora says sadly. /*"I won't say that 'there's always another way.' I learned the hard way that that's not strictly true. But surely, with all the power at this group's command, we can come up with a solution other than genocide, even if there's a 'congenital defect.' Which I seriously doubt, in this case. /*"Look at what humans in countless realities have done. Vorlons. Klingons. Oans. Skrulls. And that's the short list. Would you wipe any of those races out for the crimes of a few, or even many? I still say that Rio was right in the first place--this is a no-brainer."*/ Trying to move things along (while staying in character), ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 16:47:39 -0700 (PDT) On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 16:44:11 -0700 Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008630 >Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008627 > > /*"I won't say that 'there's always another way.' I learned the >hard way that that's not strictly true. But surely, with all the >power at this group's command, we can come up with a solution other >than genocide, even if there's a 'congenital defect.' Which I >seriously doubt, in this case. > /*"Look at what humans in countless realities have done. Vorlons. >Klingons. Oans. Skrulls. And that's the short list. Would you wipe >any of those races out for the crimes of a few, or even many? I still >say that Rio was right in the first place--this is a no-brainer."*/ /*"I would not wipe away -any- species, unless it posed a threat to the entire Macro Cosmos, and the problem was based in the very life core of the race. If it turns out that the action was so based, then the race must be isolated in such a way that they can NEVER exit their own universe. If it proves to be impossible to prevent them from EVER exiting, then they will have to be destroyed. That is not an order that I give lightly, and only consider after consulting every possible source of input, including Oracle. But when all other paths are removed, I do not hesitate to walk the one left to me. I have wiped away races, but not for the crimes of a few. I've wiped them away because they posed a threat to the entire Macro Cosmos, and no other action avaiable would do anything but delay that threat. The actions of members of the races you mentioned, were reprehensible, but the life core of the race was not responsible for those actions, and the races themselves did not represent a threat. Your reluctance to take life, especially in large quantities does you credit. But don't let it stay your hand when there is no other choice that is compatible with the greater good of the Macro Cosmos. I see hope for this race, in they have requested judgement. Which by the way -does- give us the authority, and responsibility, to make that judgement. Whether we have the wisdom to make that judgment is another question. But their actions -might- possibly be likened to that of a congenital psychopath. The psychopath is -very- sorry for his/her/its actions afterward, but should a similar situation present itself, he/she/it would repeat those actions. Then he/she/it would be -very- sorry again. VERY few psychopaths ask for judgment, but there are those who do. So the fact that these people are asking for judgment, provides much room for hope. But it does not eliminate the possibilities."*/ Aurora answers. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 11:29:41 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 10:03:45 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00008635 >On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:52:11 -0700 >Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008627 > > Roland pauses a moment, eyes flickering. /*" 'Jus*tice (jus'tis) >n. 1. Moral rightness; equity. 2. Honor; fairness. 3. The >administration and procedure of law. 4. A judge. [< L justus, JUST.]' >--American Heritage Dictionary, July 1982 printing."* (Serves me >right for not being more precise. This split thing really comes in >handy sometimes, though.) *"It should come as no surprise that I was >thinking of the first two definitions. I don't think that anyone >would believe it fair, equitable, or honorable to punish descendants >for the crimes of their extremely distant ancestors."*/ *Really? I can think of many who would. *Especially* if "honor" was involved.* > Roland looks sour for a moment. /*"And we have the right to decide >this because...?"*/ He looks at the gathered residents. /Unless the >entire species agrees to the request--not difficult to determine, >given the scale of their telepathy--it isn't our call./ *You have the right because by asking you to judge, they _gave_ you that right.* > Roland looks even more sour. /*"We're talking about sentient >species here? Free will, self-aware, the whole nine yards?"*/ He rubs >his forehead in a manner reminiscent of someone with a headache. >/Sprocking Mentor,/ he mutters mentally, probably to himself. *Mentor would have some choice comments regarding "muddy thinking" if he could see you right now.* *As for free will, I find that it is much over-rated in most species. Most actions are foregone conclusions once you consider the situation and the internalized "code of behavior" of the actor.* *You have free will. Yet are you "free" to walk past someone torturing a child to death? So do not be so quick to claim free will as an extenuating circumstance.* Somehow Nemo's "tone" manages to convey the impression that he has had to "walk past" far worse, and more times than you want to know about. > /*"Look at what humans in countless realities have done. Vorlons. >Klingons. Oans. Skrulls. And that's the short list. Would you wipe >any of those races out for the crimes of a few, or even many? I still >say that Rio was right in the first place--this is a no-brainer."*/ *You have been asked to decide. Deciding not to decide is as much a decision as any other. But I beg you, consider the consequences of your decision. Not merely the immediate ones, but the longer term ones. Not merely years, or even millenia. But eons. Or even {}, if you can wrap your minds around such.* {} = untranslatable, closest match in Rolands "data banks" are theHindu (Buddhist?) "kalpa" and the Mayan "alautun", both of which are tens of millions of years. *You have obiously considered the more obvious effects of ending this race. Consider those of _not_ ending them. They eventually come to take their aquittal as license, as a sign of "divine favor". And I'm sure you can see what lies at the end of _that_ path.* *This is not a simple question. Do not dishonor yourself by treating it as one. Consider it as if it is the most important thing you will ever do, as if it was the very reason you came into existence. For it might well be such.* Nothing like adding a bit of pressure, eh? Sorry, but there's just no other way Nemo *could* respond. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Judgment in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 16:04:32 -0700 (PDT) On 08-13-2000 at 15:59:44 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008638 I will be trying to catch up today... >On Mon, 24 Jul 100 00:51:34 +0100 (BST) >Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008581 > >>On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:35:26 -0700 >>Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008558 >> >>Aurora exerts herself. Space and time warp suddenly, and a number of >>individuals appear in the "court" in time stasis bubbles. *As they >>are required for examination, I will release the stasis bubbles. >>When you are done with each, I will suppress the memory of these >>proceeding, and return them to the exact point in time that I pulled >>them from.* > >"Good. Who do we have? If possible I would like to speak initially to >whoever was 'captain' of the Horizon when they started their >counterattack." ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 16:04:37 -0700 (PDT) On 08-13-2000 at 15:59:44 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008639 >On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:30:30 -0700 >Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008586 > >/*"Elder Ma'Rett, there MAY be another path that we can take. There >is another device, which is also a part of Fuzzy, which controls and >prevents Paradox from happening. When a paradox would occure, this >device causes a potential nexus called a paradox gem to come into >being. This paradox gem contains all the potential of the space/time >in question with the timeline following the alternate path. If a >being such as myself were to take such a gem into the void between >universes, the gem would 'actuallize' resulting in two universes >which were identical up to the point of Paradox. Attempting to alter >the past in this fashion by definition both fails and succeeds, since >in the original universe events unfold as they would have without the >interferrance, or rather, the interferrance fails in that universe >despite any and all powers applied. The device, called The Game of >IF, is another way to actualize a paradox gem. When the device is >used, the potential universe is 'swapped' with the existing universe. >When The Game of IF is used, the interferrance CAN succeed, IF the >Guardians of IF will permit its use. I am forbidden from directly >attempting this as it would in any case create a paradox for ME. YOU >however should be able to do this without incurring The Stardragon's >wrath. I would be happy to assist you in contacting the Guardians if >you wish to try."*/ Aurora offers. *Please contact the Guardians of IF, Inform them that We Earnestly Request their Assistance.* Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:15:24 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:09:04 -0700 Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008641 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008639 > >*Please contact the Guardians of IF, > Inform them that We Earnestly Request their Assistance.* The Senior Guardian of IF senses a Presense approach *I am an associate of the CAoL. You may call me Aurora. I am approaching you on behalf of the Guardians of the Cosmic Engineer. They urgently wish to consult with you on a matter of great importance to them and the Cosm they inhabit. Will you speak with them?* Aurora asks. *They are most eager to right a great wrong their people once did, and seem very earnest in their desire for your assistance in this matter. They have also asked the CAoL make a judgment of war crimes about their race. Positing the question "should a race that could do such things be permitted to continue to exist". So you see, they do seem most sincere in their request for your aid.* *If you need assistance to speak with them, I would be happy to take you to them,* Aurora offers. ================================= Subject: AAE6c: Good-bye to Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:47:15 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:27:51 -0700 Rio Said As CAoL Message # 00008642 >On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 10:03:45 PST >Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00008635 > >*This is not a simple question. Do not dishonor yourself by treating >it as one. Consider it as if it is the most important thing you will >ever do, as if it was the very reason you came into existence. For it >might well be such.* "AAAARRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!" Rio stands, a look of disgust on her face. "You people can talk *ANYTHING* into the ground. Maybe if you stand here discussing this long enough, they'll all die out and then none of you will need to make a decision about anything." She looks around at her companions. "I'm sorry. I came along on this so-called adventure because I thought it might be fun, or exciting, or that maybe I could assist the great Army of Light in some good-deed-doing. I think I can do more good for the multiverse sitting in Callahan's providing a sympathetic ear for someone." The young Ecstatic opens an X-Window to said establishment. "Um, Roger?" she adds, looking at him a bit sheepishly, "Look me up next time you're in the Place. Maybe we can spend some time together without having to worry about some epic problem." Rio steps through the portal, and closes it behind her. (OOC: Maybe if things get interesting again, I'll bring her back. But I don't feel like having to deal with a character who's as bored with the proceedings as I am.) ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Good-bye to Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:42:10 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:30:43 EDT SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008644 >In a message dated 8/13/00 11:47:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >rio writes: > >"Um, Roger?" she adds, looking at him a bit sheepishly, "Look me up >next time you're in the Place. Maybe we can spend some time together >without having to worry about some epic problem." Rio steps through >the portal, and closes it behind her. Roger waves a bit weakly as she goes, obviously tempted to follow her -- with a dupe, at least. After her X-Window closes, however, he begins to go into a slow burn. "All right," he mutters, steam leaking from his ears. "I've done my time, I've paid my dues, I've gotten killed --painfully!-- times beyond count doing the Right Thing. I've spent 400 years doing the Hero Thing. And my best romantic prospect in several *centuries* just left because things weren't exciting enough! (Not that I can blame her, in this case)." "Dammit, MY LOVE LIFE SUCKS!!!!!" In the background, lightning flashes and thunder grumbles resentfully. "Sure," he mutters, stomping away in no direction in particular. "*Dad,* the lucky stiff, finds Mom before he's even *thirty* and they settle down to umpty-umpt hundred years of Happily Married Heroic Bliss. And they *still* carry on like newlyweds -- I could tell you *stories!* Well, no, I couldn't -- Dad would probably blush to the point of spontaneous immortal combustion. Very painful. Me? I'm still looking for a regular date for Saturday nights. *Some* people get all the luck..." Mutter mutter grumble gripe whine..... OOC: Poor Roger. Kid just can't get a break, relationship-wise.... ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Good-bye to Refuge 0 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:18:20 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:53:44 -0700 Rio Said As CAoL Message # 00008647 >On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:30:43 EDT >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008644 > > (OOC: OK, but you asked for it .) > *Some* people get all the luck..." > Mutter mutter grumble gripe whine..... /Actually, Roger,/ Rio's voice carries a broad smile, just short of giggles. Apparently she hadn't yet gotten around to dropping her connection (via Eric) to the lens link. /It was at least as much frustration as boredom. And you're _certainly_ welcome to look me up on your next available Saturday night. I wouldn't want the CAoL's dithering to cost you--how did you put it? Your "best romantic prospect in several *centuries*"?/ ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Good-bye to Refuge 0 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:41:10 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Mike Knight Said As CAoL Message # 00008648 >On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:30:43 EDT >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008644 > > *Some* people get all the luck..." > Mutter mutter grumble gripe whine..... From his room in the Castle, Michael Seven looked back over the mental conversation while he'd been explaining Tink's new suit. /Er, sorry, Roland,/ Mike sent, /Got carried away playing Devil's advocate. No, I don't think these people or the Minbari are genetically predisposed to evil,, nor do I think genocide is an acceptable answer for them. Slight digression, maybe a race composed of carbon copies of a single mind that was evil would be deserving of genocide if all other options were exhausted, end of digression. I was just trying to figuratively get inside the mind of the prosecution, to anticipate their tactics./ /Okay, so essentially, we're of two minds here. One, this trial is a crock and we should just tell these people they shouldn't punish themselves over something that happened in a time so far back that most of us can't even conceive it. Two, we're reserving judgement until we hear the case. Ooops, okay, and three, we're going to try and see if the Guardians of If can help these people undo their distant ancestors' deeds. /Anyway, looks like the first witness is up, let's give them a chance to solve our problem for us. These people might be able to clue in their descendents about what really happened back then./ ================================= Subject: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:41:52 -0700 (PDT) On 08-16-2000 at 15:15:48 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008649 >On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:20:50 -0700 >Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008616 > >>On Sun, 23 Jul 100 21:09:29 +0100 (BST) >>Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008582 >> >>"It's more complicated than that. Their ancestors wiped out over 40 >>million sentient and pre-sentient species and who knows how many >>non-sentient species - trillions at a guess. That's not a thing to >>be dismissed lightly and it must not be allowed to happen again. >>Compare them to the person with a personality disorder who goes to >>the doctors and says "I'm sick, you've got to restrain me before I >>hurt someone". Are they likely to repeat their offence? Probably >>not, but that's not good enough. Definitely not is the answer we're >>looking for." > > *Not entirely true, old friend,* Roland replies, still considering >the point. He frowns. *I think it's more like, "My entire family's >sick, you've got to quarantine us all." Do we just take it on that >person's say-so that the whole family's actually got the disease? In >this case, is there even a disease? Sentient beings of any species >are capable of vast nobility and diabolic depravity.* Roland pauses a >moment. *Did _every_ member of your species participate in this >slaughter? I think that that's a _very_ important point--grounds for >dismissal, IMNSHO, if there were a) dissenters and/or b) large >numbers who would not participate.* *Every Adult member, Of every Species, Which were represented in the Crew.* *Only 97 of those Species had Any Surviving Children at that time, None had enough Surviving Children to represent a Viable Gene-Pool.* > Again, some major highlights. _These_ I'll hit a few of. Sidharta >Gautama (the Buddha). Thermopylae (Three hundred Spartans against >tens of thousands of Persians). Yeshua bar Joseph (the Christ). >Jeanne d'Arc. Harriet Tubman. The French Resistance. Mahatma Gandhi. >Pick a firefighter--ANY firefighter--and multiply by the millions who >have done the same. > *"You have waited and studied and lived in peace for millions of >years. Surely your people must now have much to teach younger, more >violent races. Would you destroy that possibility because of a past >long dead?"* *Our Databases could do that more safely, Any of our Race in person could be considered a Hazard, To the Development of any younger species, A single mistake or accident on the part of one of us, Could permanently compromise the Mentalities, Of a large percentage of a worlds population.* ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Good-bye to Refuge 0 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 18:21:13 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:53:21 EDT SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008650 >In a message dated 8/16/00 5:18:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >rio writes: > >> > >(OOC: OK, but you asked for it .) Uh....oh. >> *Some* people get all the luck..." >> Mutter mutter grumble gripe whine..... > >/Actually, Roger,/ Rio's voice carries a broad smile, just short of >giggles. Apparently she hadn't yet gotten around to dropping her >connection (via Eric) to the lens link. /It was at least >as much frustration as boredom. And you're _certainly_ welcome to >look me up on your next available Saturday night. I wouldn't want the >CAoL's dithering to cost you--how did you put it? Your "best romantic >prospect in several *centuries*"?/ Roger sloooowly starts to turn red... #WARNING! WARNING! BLUSHTEMP EXCEEDING MAXIMUM SAFE LIMITS! ENGAGE SAFETY PROTOCOLS IMM--# BOOOOMMMM!!!!!!! A few minutes later, as Roger is pulling himself together (pieces all over the landscape, yuck)... "Oookay. Boy, is my face red. And black, and crispy, but that's not important right now. What *is* important is--" his expression turns slightly panicked. "What the HECK am I gonna do for this date?!? I'm out of practice, it's been too long, I don't what movies are playing where, I don't know what she likes for dinner, I gotta get a haircut--" BONK! Roger peels the mallet marked ROGER ANTI-PANIC SYSTEM off the top of his head. "Right. Don't Panic. Cool and Froody. Right. Just be natural. Don't get over-anxious, never draw on an inside straight, don't take wooden nickles, never ever EVER push the Big Red Butto--" BONK! (Continue ad naseum....(:)) > And we all love you for it. =================================