Action, Adventure, Excitement, Part 6c The Cosmic Engineer - ch. 8 Subject: Fwd: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:00:28 -0700 (PDT) On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:16:28 EDT Scott Osborne Said As CAoL Message # 00008653 [Ed Note: Actually from Roland, who couldn't get through to the list directly.] >On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 10:03:45 PST >Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00008635 > >>On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:52:11 -0700 >>Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008627 >> >> Roland looks sour for a moment. /*"And we have the right to >>decide this because...?"*/ He looks at the gathered residents. >>/Unless the entire species agrees to the request--not difficult to >>determine, given the scale of their telepathy--it isn't our call./ > >*You have the right because by asking you to judge, they _gave_ you >that right.* /You're not usually deliberately obtuse, Nemo. They gave us the right for their whole _species?_ I'd like more confirmation than a handful of elders in one town./ >> Roland looks even more sour. /*"We're talking about sentient >>species here? Free will, self-aware, the whole nine yards?"*/ He >>rubs his forehead in a manner reminiscent of someone with a >>headache. /Sprocking Mentor,/ he mutters mentally, probably to >>himself. > >*Mentor would have some choice comments regarding "muddy thinking" if >he could see you right now.* /Mentor can take four flying leaps in four separate directions,/ Roland snaps irritably. >*You have free will. Yet are you "free" to walk past someone >torturing a child to death? So do not be so quick to claim free will >as an extenuating circumstance.* Roland winces, then blinks and gets a suspicious look on his face. /What are you up to, Nemo? That's twice now. I don't think an omniscient being could be that _wrong_ on what I meant./ He pauses. /(Unless I've gotten my mind/probability shields that advanced. I have been working on them for a while now...) Anyway. Free will is not an extenuating circumstance--it is a prerequisite for guilt. An ordinary falling boulder or an unmodified Trade Federation battle droid are incapable of 'guilt.' They are capable of being threats, but they make no decision. Without a decision, there is no guilt. The same could be true for some life forms--certain animals are as 'hard wired' to some decisions as any machine. Which is why we're even considering the possibility here./ >*You have been asked to decide. Deciding not to decide is as much a >decision as any other. But I beg you, consider the consequences of >your decision. Not merely the immediate ones, but the longer term >ones. Not merely years, or even millenia. But eons. Or even {}, if >you can wrap your minds around such.* *Ow.* Roland shakes his head. *Actually, I can't. * >{} = untranslatable, closest match in Rolands "data banks" are the >Hindu (Buddhist?) "kalpa" and the Mayan "alautun", both of which are >tens of millions of years. (Roland reaches his limits at millennia, and that only because he's known immortals who've lived that long.) >*You have obiously considered the more obvious effects of ending this >race. Consider those of _not_ ending them. They eventually come to >take their aquittal as license, as a sign of "divine favor". And I'm >sure you can see what lies at the end of _that_ path.* *Considering the possibilities of what they might accomplish if they live is _exactly_ why I spoke up. They _might_ take an acquittal as a license. Or they might see it as a second chance, a chance to make things right, or at least do no unnecessary harm.* (OOC: Ignore the below if it was just player spacing rather than deviousness. 8^) /And three times is conspiracy. Care to explain _why_ you're overlooking the meaning of my statements, Nemo? Dhyrclhanc and Zia can miss my point on occasion. You are another story./ >*This is not a simple question. Do not dishonor yourself by treating >it as one. Consider it as if it is the most important thing you will >ever do, as if it was the very reason you came into existence. For it >might well be such.* *Just because something is important doesn't mean it can't be simple,* Roland replies. *Look at them, Nemo. _Look_ at them. _Feel_ this place. I can't believe that evolving into whatever you are removes such primal things as empathy and instinct.* Roland looks very solemn suddenly. *Condemning a race of peaceful sentients for what their ancestors did half a billion years ago is plain wrong. Simpler than it looks, isn't it? *And opposing the Adversary is why I came into existence.* (OOC: I'll respond to Fuzzy's post after Morgan's point is clarified--I was going to ask the same thing myself. 8^) ================================= Subject: Fwd: AAE6c: Good-bye to Refuge 0 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:00:43 -0700 (PDT) On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:18:08 EDT Scott Osborne Said As CAoL Message # 00008655 [Ed. Note: Another from The Hunter.] For the IC list, originally sent Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:07:08. >On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:53:21 EDT >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008650 > >>In a message dated 8/16/00 5:18:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>rio writes: >> >>> >> >>(OOC: OK, but you asked for it .) > > Uh....oh. This is why women are better at avoiding trouble than men, you see...their sensors go off _before_ it hits. ;^) >>> "Dammit, MY LOVE LIFE SUCKS!!!!!" In the background, lightning >>>flashes and thunder grumbles resentfully. Eric looks decidedly unsympathetic. 8^) >>> "Sure," he mutters, stomping away in no direction in particular. >>>"*Dad,* the lucky stiff, finds Mom before he's even *thirty* and >>>they settle down to umpty-umpt hundred years of Happily Married >>>Heroic Bliss. And they *still* carry on like newlyweds -- I could >>>tell you *stories!* Well, no, I couldn't -- Dad would probably >>>blush to the point of spontaneous immortal combustion. [THAT I have to see,] Eric thinks to himself. Mew looks at him reproachfully. >>/Actually, Roger,/ Rio's voice carries a broad smile, just short of >>giggles. Apparently she hadn't yet gotten around to dropping her >>connection (via Eric) to the lens link. /It was at least >>as much frustration as boredom. And you're _certainly_ welcome to >>look me up on your next available Saturday night. I wouldn't want >>the CAoL's dithering to cost you--how did you put it? Your "best >>romantic prospect in several *centuries*"?/ Eric suddenly finds Mew's tail very interesting. /Hm. Must have forgotten to cut off her tap into the psi-link. How thoughtless of me./ He's actually having to _work_ at not smiling. Mew isn't even bothering. > Roger sloooowly starts to turn red... > #WARNING! WARNING! BLUSHTEMP EXCEEDING MAXIMUM SAFE LIMITS! ENGAGE >SAFETY PROTOCOLS IMM--# > BOOOOMMMM!!!!!!! "Ah, so that's what it looks like," Eric notes dryly (even for him). Mew hits him in the back of the head with her tail. Eric doesn't even notice. (Or at least, pretends not to.) /And he said he didn't inherit his father's penchant for blushing,/ Eric adds over the lens-link. ;^) > A few minutes later, as Roger is pulling himself together (pieces >all over the landscape, yuck)... > "Oookay. Boy, is my face red. And black, and crispy, but that's not >important right now. What *is* important is--" his expression turns >slightly panicked. > "What the HECK am I gonna do for this date?!? I'm out of practice, >it's been too long, I don't what movies are playing where, I don't >know what she likes for dinner, I gotta get a haircut--" > BONK! "X-Men's playing at the Rialto 8, she used to love Hawaiian pizza, and you need a lot more than a haircut after that...display," Eric comments helpfully. A little pink bubble splashes into his head. For a moment, the CAoL is treated to the truly surreal (and slightly horrific) sight of Eric with bright pink hair. Fortunately for the fabric of reality, it only lasts a moment. Eric sighs. > Roger peels the mallet marked ROGER ANTI-PANIC SYSTEM off the top >of his head. "Right. Don't Panic. Cool and Froody. Right. Just be >natural. Don't get over-anxious, never draw on an inside straight, >don't take wooden nickles, never ever EVER push the Big Red Butto--" > BONK! "Actually, you _do_ push the Big Red Button if it's on the Mad Scientist's machine," Eric says, entirely serious at this point. "Unless it blows up the world or something." Anyone who stares at him after this statement gets a 'what?' look. "Sons of Ether barabbi. Very nasty." > (Continue ad naseum....(:)) > >> > > And we all love you for it. OOC-R: Well, _I_ sure do! ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Good-bye to Refuge 0 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:44:38 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:17:12 EDT SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008657 >>>> "Dammit, MY LOVE LIFE SUCKS!!!!!" In the background, lightning >>>>flashes and thunder grumbles resentfully. > > Eric looks decidedly unsympathetic. 8^) OOC: Heh. There's more congruence between their love lives than he knows. Maybe I'll get around to writing that up one day, if/when opportunity presents itself... > Eric suddenly finds Mew's tail very interesting. /Hm. Must have >forgotten to cut off her tap into the psi-link. How thoughtless of >me./ He's actually having to _work_ at not smiling. Mew isn't even >bothering. Roger detours out of his rant&panic long enough to cast Eric a reproachful look. "Eric. Innocence does NOT suit you. Give it up." >> Roger sloooowly starts to turn red... >> #WARNING! WARNING! BLUSHTEMP EXCEEDING MAXIMUM SAFE LIMITS! ENGAGE >>SAFETY PROTOCOLS IMM--# >> BOOOOMMMM!!!!!!! > > "Ah, so that's what it looks like," Eric notes dryly (even for >him). Mew hits him in the back of the head with her tail. Eric >doesn't even notice. (Or at least, pretends not to.) > /And he said he didn't inherit his father's penchant for >blushing,/ Eric adds over the lens-link. ;^) "Well, Dad's worse," an auxiliary Roger standing by Eric's shoulder remarks offhandedly, nibbling on a carrot Bugs Bunny-style. "The last time I recall it happening to *him,* was during a backtime trip to Siberia...1908, I think it was. And then there was Krakatoa..." > "X-Men's playing at the Rialto 8, she used to love Hawaiian pizza, >and you need a lot more than a haircut after that...display," Eric >comments helpfully. A little pink bubble splashes into his head. For >a moment, the CAoL is treated to the truly surreal (and slightly >horrific) sight of Eric with bright pink hair. Fortunately for the >fabric of reality, it only lasts a moment. Eric sighs. "Damn, I love Polaroid." ================================= Subject: Fwd: AAE6c: Good-bye to Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:14:24 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:44:50 EDT Scott Osborne Said As CAoL Message # 00008659 And another to forward, this one from Eric. >On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:17:12 EDT >SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008657 > >> Eric suddenly finds Mew's tail very interesting. /Hm. Must have >>forgotten to cut off her tap into the psi-link. How thoughtless of >>me./ He's actually having to _work_ at not smiling. Mew isn't even >>bothering. > > Roger detours out of his rant&panic long enough to cast Eric a >reproachful look. "Eric. Innocence does NOT suit you. Give it up." Eric obliges him, settling for a satisfied smirk instead. His eyes slip back behind his shades, unreadable once more. >> /And he said he didn't inherit his father's penchant for >>blushing,/ Eric adds over the lens-link. ;^) > > "Well, Dad's worse," an auxiliary Roger standing by Eric's shoulder >remarks offhandedly, nibbling on a carrot Bugs Bunny-style. "The last >time I recall it happening to *him,* was during a backtime trip to >Siberia...1908, I think it was. And then there was Krakatoa..." /That's slander! Siberia was the Adversary, and I've never _been_ to Krakatoa. Uh...at least not yet...note to self: avoid Krakatoa,/ Roland sends. Eric just chuckles again. >> "X-Men's playing at the Rialto 8, she used to love Hawaiian >>pizza, and you need a lot more than a haircut after that...display," >>Eric comments helpfully. A little pink bubble splashes into his >>head. For a moment, the CAoL is treated to the truly surreal (and >>slightly horrific) sight of Eric with bright pink hair. Fortunately >>for the fabric of reality, it only lasts a moment. Eric sighs. > > "Damn, I love Polaroid." A pity it comes out overexposed. ;^) Mew giggles. ================================= Subject: Fwd: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:14:30 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:51:14 EDT Scott Osborne Said As CAoL Message # 00008660 [Ed. Note: Another forwarded for Roland.] >On 08-16-2000 at 15:15:48 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008649 > >>On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:20:50 -0700 >>Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008616 >> >> *Not entirely true, old friend,* Roland replies, still >>considering the point. He frowns. *I think it's more like, "My >>entire family's sick, you've got to quarantine us all." Do we just >>take it on that person's say-so that the whole family's actually got >>the disease? In this case, is there even a disease? Sentient beings >>of any species are capable of vast nobility and diabolic depravity.* >>Roland pauses a moment. *Did _every_ member of your species >>participate in this slaughter? I think that that's a _very_ >>important point--grounds for dismissal, IMNSHO, if there were a) >>dissenters and/or b) large numbers who would not participate.* > >*Every Adult member, > Of every Species, > Which were represented in the Crew.* (OOC: This was explained to mean that the only survivors of the races represented on the Blue Horizon were the crew members of the ship.) *That seems to settle it,* Roland replies. *Unless their soldiers happened to have some genetic disposition toward genocide, the races involved were not all driving toward annihilating everyone in their sights.* >> *"You have waited and studied and lived in peace for millions of >>years. Surely your people must now have much to teach younger, more >>violent races. Would you destroy that possibility because of a past >>long dead?"* > >*Our Databases could do that more safely, > Any of our Race in person could be considered a Hazard, > To the Development of any younger species, > A single mistake or accident on the part of one of us, > Could permanently compromise the Mentalities, > Of a large percentage of a worlds population.* Roland blinks. *I don't understand. Do you have some sort of, I don't know, telepathic contagion?* (OOC: Roland exits stage Destroyer after the response.) ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:43:02 -0700 (PDT) On 08-22-2000 at 11:30:36 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008662 >On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:52:11 -0700 >Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008627 > >>On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 06:18:30 -0700 >>Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008619 >> >>These people are not requesting judgement for an individual, or even >>a subgroup of their race. They are asking if a race that could do >>such things should be allowed to continue to be. > > Roland looks sour for a moment. /*"And we have the right to decide >this because...?"*/ He looks at the gathered residents. /Unless the >entire species agrees to the request--not difficult to determine, >given the scale of their telepathy--it isn't our call./ *Actually they Asked The Stranger, Which may make more sense than you perceive at first glance, A Full Lensman {Lensmans Load implicit}, and An Avatar of the Eternal Champion... Though, I do not know how they perceived that...* ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:18:30 -0700 (PDT) On 08-22-2000 at 12:00:35 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008664 >On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:09:04 -0700 >Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008641 > >The Senior Guardian of IF senses a Presense approach *I am an >associate of the CAoL. You may call me Aurora. I am approaching you >on behalf of the Guardians of the Cosmic Engineer. They urgently wish >to consult with you on a matter of great importance to them and the >Cosm they inhabit. Will you speak with them?* Aurora asks. *They are >most eager to right a great wrong their people once did, and seem >very earnest in their desire for your assistance in this matter. They >have also asked the CAoL make a judgment of war crimes about their >race. Positing the question "should a race that could do such things >be permitted to continue to exist". So you see, they do seem most >sincere in their request for your aid.* > >*If you need assistance to speak with them, I would be happy to take >you to them,* Aurora offers. *I will make my way there shortly, We have been expecting this since we knew of your group's Goal, I must first retrieve some Evidence from our Archives.* *You may Inform them that I will be there soon, If you would be so kind.* The Senior Master of The Guardian of IF ================================= Subject: Fwd: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:23:07 -0700 (PDT) On 08-22-2000 at 14:53:03 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008665 >On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:51:14 EDT >Scott Osborne Said as a Forward for Roland As CAoL Message # 00008660 > >>On 08-16-2000 at 15:15:48 >>FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008649 >> >>>On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:20:50 -0700 >>>Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008616 >>> >>*Every Adult member, >> Of every Species, >> Which were represented in the Crew.* > > (OOC: This was explained to mean that the only survivors of the >races represented on the Blue Horizon were the crew members of the >ship.) > *That seems to settle it,* Roland replies. *Unless their soldiers >happened to have some genetic disposition toward genocide, the races >involved were not all driving toward annihilating everyone in their >sights.* *Save by the Immediate Trauma, Of the Situation, They were not so Driven, Does that make the situation more of less Awful?* >>*Our Databases could do that more safely, >> Any of our Race in person could be considered a Hazard, >> To the Development of any younger species, >> A single mistake or accident on the part of one of us, >> Could permanently compromise the Mentalities, >> Of a large percentage of a worlds population.* > > Roland blinks. *I don't understand. Do you have some sort of, I >don't know, telepathic contagion?* > (OOC: Roland exits stage Destroyer after the response.) *Effectively the Answer is Yes, A single unguarded Statement or Careless Transmission, Effected by our inborn Telepathic Talent, Would supplant in part or in whole the Native Mentality, Of most beings with less Mental Strength and Resilience, Than the common run of First generation Lensmen. The Area of effect would be planetary.* *To us that far out weighs such things as, Identify and Locate all of the sick minds, Including curing all but the most rigid cases, In a planetary population in under {one minute}.* ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 17:03:42 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:26:33 -0700 Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008666 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008664 >*I will make my way there shortly, > We have been expecting this since we knew of your group's Goal, > I must first retrieve some Evidence from our Archives.* > >*You may Inform them that I will be there soon, > If you would be so kind.* > >The Senior Master of The Guardian of IF *I thank you.* She answers /*"Elder Ma'Rett, the Senior Guardian of IF has agreed to consult with the Elders of the Blue Horizon, concerning the subject at hand. Stranger (I think Stranger was doing the trial), Roland, he has implied that they have some evidence that may have some bearing on the case"*/ Aurora sends. /*"He indicates he will come in person as soon as he can gather that evidence."*/ ================================= Subject: AAE 6c: What we need here is...more POWER! (Ar ar ar...) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:02:23 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:45:01 -0700 The Hunter Said As CAoL Message # 00008667 >On 08-22-2000 at 14:53:03 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008665 > >> Roland blinks. *I don't understand. Do you have some sort of, I >>don't know, telepathic contagion?* > >*Effectively the Answer is Yes, > A single unguarded Statement or Careless Transmission, > Effected by our inborn Telepathic Talent, > Would supplant in part or in whole the Native Mentality, > Of most beings with less Mental Strength and Resilience, > Than the common run of First generation Lensmen. > The Area of effect would be planetary.* > >*To us that far out weighs such things as, > Identify and Locate all of the sick minds, > Including curing all but the most rigid cases, > In a planetary population in under {one minute}.* *Hmm...* Roland is about to respond when his eyes widen. He vanishes suddenly, leaving only the glow that usually follows his teleportation. A moment later that fades too. Eric looks at the empty space for a moment. His hands open and close, and he clearly wants to join in the action. But he doesn't. He frowns, and a moment later looks over at the "defendants." "Okay. So there's actually something that you can do that'll mess other races up." Eric looks at Nemo, then to Nemisis (there is a Nemisis split here, right?) and then up, and Aurora can feel him 'looking' at her. "So, instead of destroying them, can you 'cure' them? I mean, from what I've heard, the more powerful members of this group can rearrange galaxies and so on. Is this really an 'either-or' choice? When the vampire 'apocalypse' came on my world, a lot died, a few remained Kindred, but most of them got turned into immortals of Roland's type. Most of those healed have managed to get on with their lives, although a few are twisted enough to keep me in business." Eric looks the members of Refuge 0 over. "If you folks really want to die, that's your business. But if you're willing, this bunch can probably fix just about anything that's 'wrong' with you." He looks up again. "Right?" ================================= Subject: Re: Fwd: AAE6c: Good-bye to Refuge 0 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:42:45 -0700 (PDT) On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:22:12 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00008668 >On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:44:50 EDT >Scott Osborne Said As CAoL Message # 00008659 > >And another to forward, this one from Eric. > >>On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:17:12 EDT >>SkyeFire Said As CAoL Message # 00008657 >> >> "Well, Dad's worse," an auxiliary Roger standing by Eric's >>shoulder remarks offhandedly, nibbling on a carrot Bugs Bunny-style. >>"The last time I recall it happening to *him,* was during a backtime >>trip to Siberia...1908, I think it was. And then there was >>Krakatoa..." > > /That's slander! Siberia was the Adversary, and I've never _been_ >to Krakatoa. Uh...at least not yet...note to self: avoid Krakatoa,/ >Roland sends. > Eric just chuckles again. And what about the other Russian blast in the 1920s? (yes, there have been *two* such events, both in Siberia!) ================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:42:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Fwd: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:49:08 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00008669 >On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:16:28 EDT >Scott Osborne Said As CAoL Message # 00008653 > >I'm fronting for Morgan and Roland right now. >For the IC list, originally sent Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:23:49. > >>On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 10:03:45 PST >>Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00008635 >> >>>On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:52:11 -0700 >>>Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008627 >>> >>> Roland looks sour for a moment. /*"And we have the right to >>>decide this because...?"*/ He looks at the gathered residents. >>>/Unless the entire species agrees to the request--not difficult to >>>determine, given the scale of their telepathy--it isn't our call./ >> >>*You have the right because by asking you to judge, they _gave_ you >>that right.* > > /You're not usually deliberately obtuse, Nemo. They gave us the >right for their whole _species?_ I'd like more confirmation than a >handful of elders in one town./ *You are _assuming_ that they aren't speaking for their species. Perhaps you should _ask_ them rather than making assumptions. And we both know that you are quite capable of asking every adult member of the species without any great exertion. So do they.* >>> Roland looks even more sour. /*"We're talking about sentient >>>species here? Free will, self-aware, the whole nine yards?"*/ He >>>rubs his forehead in a manner reminiscent of someone with a >>>headache. /Sprocking Mentor,/ he mutters mentally, probably to >>>himself. >> >>*Mentor would have some choice comments regarding "muddy thinking" >>if he could see you right now.* > > /Mentor can take four flying leaps in four separate directions,/ >Roland snaps irritably. Nemo's only response is the mental impression of an odd smile. Folks who've read "Children of the Lens" know *why* that comment made Nemo smile. Anybody who wants to know why (it's a minor spoiler) send me private email. >>*You have free will. Yet are you "free" to walk past someone >>torturing a child to death? So do not be so quick to claim free will >>as an extenuating circumstance.* > > Roland winces, then blinks and gets a suspicious look on his face. >/What are you up to, Nemo? That's twice now. I don't think an >omniscient being could be that _wrong_ on what I meant./ Anyone watching Nemo will note that the irises of his eyes seem odd. >He pauses. /(Unless I've gotten my mind/probability shields that >advanced. I have been working on them for a while now...) Anyway. >Free will is not an extenuating circumstance -- it is a prerequisite >for guilt. An ordinary falling boulder or an unmodified Trade >Federation battle droid are incapable of 'guilt.' They are capable of >being threats, but they make no decision. Without a decision, there >is no guilt. The same could be true for some life forms -- certain >animals are as 'hard wired' to some decisions as any machine. Which >is why we're even considering the possibility here./ *And most "intelligent" beings are far more hardwired than they suspect.* >>> /*"I won't say that 'there's always another way.' I learned the >>>hard way that that's not strictly true. But surely, with all the >>>power at this group's command, we can come up with a solution other >>>than genocide, even if there's a 'congenital defect.' Which I >>>seriously doubt, in this case. *Ah. But if it _is_ a congenital defect, then "correcting" it _is_ genocide, because the original species will be replaced by one with a different genome. Much of it might be the same, but the sort of change required to correct such a defect is _not_ minor.* >>> /*"Look at what humans in countless realities have done. >>>Vorlons. Klingons. Oans. Skrulls. And that's the short list. Would >>>you wipe any of those races out for the crimes of a few, or even >>>many? I still say that Rio was right in the first place--this is a >>>no-brainer."*/ *Perhaps. Then again, how many of those races had 100% of their adult members participate *actively* in the crimes?* > *Considering the possibilities of what they might accomplish if >they live is _exactly_ why I spoke up. They _might_ take an acquittal >as a license. Or they might see it as a second chance, a chance to >make things right, or at least do no unnecessary harm.* > (OOC: Ignore the below if it was just player spacing rather than >deviousness. 8^) > /And three times is conspiracy. Care to explain _why_ you're >overlooking the meaning of my statements, Nemo? Dhyrclhanc and Zia >can miss my point on occasion. You are another story./ The oddness of Nemo's eyes is that the irises are *red*. *Apparently you missed my offer to act as Advocatus Diaboli. After all, of all present I have certian unique qualifications. And if I "win", the guilt will be "merely" another boulder on a mountain.* >>*This is not a simple question. Do not dishonor yourself by treating >>it as one. Consider it as if it is the most important thing you will >>ever do, as if it was the very reason you came into existence. For >>it might well be such.* > > *Just because something is important doesn't mean it can't be >simple,* Roland replies. *Look at them, Nemo. _Look_ at them. _Feel_ >this place. I can't believe that evolving into whatever you are >removes such primal things as empathy and instinct.* *No. It does not.*. Nemo's mental "voice" carries undertones of something Roland "feels" that he doesn't want to examine closely, for fear he'll learn more than he wants to know. >Roland looks very solemn suddenly. *Condemning a race of peaceful >sentients for what their ancestors did half a billion years ago is >plain wrong. Simpler than it looks, isn't it? *_Perhaps_ it is wrong. It depends on the standards you use to judge. But even if it is, it may be _necessary_.* the undfertone is even stronger, and Roland *knows* he doesn't want to know why it's there. > *And opposing the Adversary is why I came into existence.* *And the Adversary's principle amusement is setting up sitations where you cannot do right, but merely try to minimize the evil. So?* ================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AAE 6c: What we need here is...more POWER! (Ar ar ar...) On 08-22-2000 at 20:57:07 Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00008670 >On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:45:01 -0700 >The Hunter Said As CAoL Message # 00008667 > > "Okay. So there's actually something that you can do that'll mess >other races up." Eric looks at Nemo, then to Nemisis (there is a >Nemisis split here, right?) and then up, and Aurora can feel him >'looking' at her. "So, instead of destroying them, can you 'cure' >them? I mean, from what I've heard, the more powerful members of this >group can rearrange galaxies and so on. Is this really an 'either-or' >choice? When the vampire 'apocalypse' came on my world, a lot died, a >few remained Kindred, but most of them got turned into immortals of >Roland's type. Most of those healed have managed to get on with their >lives, although a few are twisted enough to keep me in business." >Eric looks the members of Refuge 0 over. "If you folks really want to >die, that's your business. But if you're willing, this bunch can >probably fix just about anything that's 'wrong' with you." He looks >up again. "Right?" "Yes, Even I could do so However, That would constitute a significant base level change, In the Racial Genome, also I suspect that they have sufficient Nano-Technology, and Genetic Engineering to do so themselves. At least in the Germ plasm. They Seem to have implied that They deliberately, Use a Build and Crash Cycle to maintain their Growth as a Race, That implies that they may have Objections to, More Direct Methods." "From what I have heard the Next Natural step in their Evolution, In their next build cycle, Would be a Mass mind, Or something even harder for normal Sentients to understand." ================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:05:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. On 08-22-2000 at 20:57:07 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008671 >On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:26:33 -0700 >Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008666 > >/*"Elder Ma'Rett, the Senior Guardian of IF has agreed to consult >with the Elders of the Blue Horizon, concerning the subject at hand. >Stranger (I think Stranger was doing the trial), Roland, he has >implied that they have some evidence that may have some bearing on >the case"*/ Aurora sends. /*"He indicates he will come in person as >soon as he can gather that evidence."*/ *Thank You, It is Interesting that he has another point to address, Especially with 'Evidence'* ================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE6c: Talkin to Elder Ma'Rett of the Village of Furth. On 08-22-2000 at 22:27:22 Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00008672 >On 08-22-2000 at 20:57:07 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008671 > >*Thank You, > It is Interesting that he has another point to address, > Especially with 'Evidence'* *There is Another Data point that must be raised before we proceed, I became aware while reviewing the Snippets Archive, That it and we were talking about Different entities Called Fuzzy, The Lord Fuzzy who was my Creator/Father, and Friend to most of the people seeking to restore Him, Was not *FUZZY*, He was the Delay Keystone of the ReCreation... And Recapitulating his Origin He Died Opposing, {The Pre-Emptive End of All}... He Lost... Rhubarb *At the {Event} of his apparent death, He was fighting The Direct Manifestation of, That which wishes to Prevent Creation... Somehow during that battle, He managed to borrow and wield a fraction, Of the *POWER* of that which Creates...* *Rhubarb* *Other Powers stepped in and used Your ReCreation Spell, As a bootstrap to Restart Creation, Correcting flaws The Great Adversary had caused.* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *We do not know Why or How he could Survived being uncreated.* ================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE 6c: What we need here is...more POWER! (Ar ar ar...) On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:53:49 -0700 Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008680 >The Hunter Said As CAoL Message # 00008667 > "Okay. So there's actually something that you can do that'll mess >other races up." Eric looks at Nemo, then to Nemisis (there is a >Nemisis split here, right?) and then up, and Aurora can feel him >'looking' at her. "So, instead of destroying them, can you 'cure' >them? I mean, from what I've heard, the more powerful members of this >group can rearrange galaxies and so on. Is this really an 'either-or' >choice? When the vampire 'apocalypse' came on my world, a lot died, a >few remained Kindred, but most of them got turned into immortals of >Roland's type. Most of those healed have managed to get on with their >lives, although a few are twisted enough to keep me in business." >Eric looks the members of Refuge 0 over. "If you folks really want to >die, that's your business. But if you're willing, this bunch can >probably fix just about anything that's 'wrong' with you." He looks >up again. "Right?" /*"Given enough time I could extinquish a galaxy, true. With the proper preparations, I could destroy a universe even faster. Destroying a universe once took The Stardragon less than a millisecond. But I will not unless there is no less extreme path that will lead to the greatest good. As to altering the race, that -might- be possible. IF the race does not have any kind of communal consiousness, and or resist. This race possesses minds of great power. I sense that they MIGHT be broken, but bending them, without breaking them, would take The Stardragon wielding my skills, and Oracle's knowlege of all possible futures. It might possibly also take NEMO's computational abilities. Getting Oracle to fuse with The Stardragon would take no more than the willingness of The Stardragon. Oracle loves the child. I, however, cannot. The Stardragon is one of the two things in the Macro Cosmos that I fear, and it is the greater fear of the two. The other is The Adversary. I was created to FIGHT The Stardragon, just as I created Dragon's Bane to fight it, and the indoctrination that I received before that awful moment of alteration holds to this day. Please note that the elders have not asked us to kill, or to otherwise execute sentence. Though I stand ready to assist in executing that sentence if they do so ask. They have merely asked Stranger to sit in judgement over the situation. Also altering the race is, by my way of thinking, ONE of the ways that the flame of their species may be extinguished."*/ Aurora answers sadly. /*"Hopefully the discussions between the Senior Guardian of IF and the elders will eliminate the need for judgment much less sentencing."*/ ================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:47:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AAE6c: The Assembled Elders of Refuge 0. On 09-01-2000 at 21:30:59 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008683 >On 08-22-2000 at 22:27:22 >Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00008672 > >*Other Powers stepped in and used Your ReCreation Spell, > As a bootstrap to Restart Creation, > Correcting flaws The Great Adversary had caused.* > >*RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* *RHUBARB* > >*We do not know Why or How he could Survived being uncreated.* Replying as Consensus *Interesting, It will be interesting to explore the implications of that, but It has no direct bearing on the current tasks, or Judgments.* The Elders of Refuge 0. ================================= Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AAE 6c: Elders and Guardians On 09-08-2000 at 09:15:31 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008693 After the Exchanges about Genetic Alteration as a Cure for Evolution... Nemisis's Statemant to the Elders, and their Reply... It seems that the Senior Master of the Gaurdians of IF, Arrived Quietly and has been waiting for things to calm down a bit... There will continue to be quiet exchanges in the background, As the Elders discuss the implications of Nemisis' Statement... "Your Honor, (Addressing Stranger) Assembled Elders, (Addressing to Gallery) I have come in answer to a Request, May I speak of the Issues Involved?" ================================= Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 13:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AAE 6c: Elders and Guardians On 09-09-2000 at 12:16:43 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008701 >On 09-08-2000 at 09:15:31 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008693 > >"Your Honor, (Addressing Stranger) > Assembled Elders, (Addressing to Gallery) > I have come in answer to a Request, > May I speak of the Issues Involved?" " The First Point that needs to be addressed, Is the Elders Request for Assistance in Altering the Past. I am sorry to have to say this But, That Must not be done." " In the Earliest days of the Brotherhood, We examined the Situation..." Holograms and Engram data sets are in the background from here down... " Who would not seek to undo such a Horrible Event?" " We found that Stopping the War, Increased the Frequency and Violence of Other Major Atrocities, By more than Two Orders of Magnitude..." " Stopping the use of the Collapse Generator, Was Worse as the War Lasted for Over a Million Years, With Many More Deaths, And The Increase in other Atrocities still occurred." " Stopping the Creation of The Blue Horizon, Led to the Collapse Generator being used 57 more times, Over the next 500 Millennia, Ending in a Bloody Revolt, When the Conquered peoples Exterminated More Species, Than your Ancestors Did." " As you can see your Ancestors Actions, Were the Basis of the Most effective, Preventative for Atrocities ever seen. In Short Leaving your history alone, Is the Least Damaging Option we could find." ------- " The Second Point I must Address is The Direct result of your ancestors Actions, Those three Galaxies are currently the Most Densely inhabit galaxies In the Matrix." " A Sentient Biological Artifact Released in space, During the Last year of the War, These Titans Have reproduced and spread." " Incidentally Finding and Reviving enough members of Most of the Races, Your Ancestors thought Destroyed for Viability." " Only 97 Sentient Races have not yet been Recovered, and 62 of those have had enough genetic material found, That the species could be cloned, If their Spirits do not find their way back to the Repaired Bodies. " Of the Pre-sentient Species Only 153 have not been Revived." " There are several times the concurrent number of Sentient Species, Native to those Galaxies, Than there would have been, Without your Ancestors Actions" " This is another Reason for not Altering the Past." " The aspect of the Charges which deals with the number of, Species Destroyed needs to be altered." " I Realize that the need of Judgment is not lessened by the change, To Attempted rather than Actual..." The Senior Master of IF ================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Elders and Guardians On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:39:59 -0700 Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008702 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008701 > >" As you can see your Ancestors Actions, > Were the Basis of the Most effective, > Preventative for Atrocities ever seen. > In Short Leaving your history alone, > Is the Least Damaging Option we could find." /*"So much for the simple, easy, answer."*/ Aurora sighs. >" The aspect of the Charges which deals with the number of, > Species Destroyed needs to be altered." > >" I Realize that the need of Judgment is not lessened by the change, > To Attempted rather than Actual..." /*"No, the severity of the action cannot be diminished by the simple fact that it failed. Had chance not interceeded, it might well have succeeded."*/ Aurora adds. ================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Elders and Guardians On 09-11-2000 at 12:06:04 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008703 >On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:39:59 -0700 >Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008702 > >/*"No, the severity of the action cannot be diminished by the simple >fact that it failed. Had chance not interceeded, it might well have >succeeded."*/ Aurora adds. --------- " The Next Issue Your Honor, Is that This Race is Neither Innately Malevolent, nor The Greatest Hazard to others, Of those Resident in The Refuges of The Blue Horizon." " Arguably those descriptives may apply more to These Races." {Image: A Reptilian Trooping(like apes) Species, Non-sentient in Childhood or Breeder Age Groups.} The Warrior age Group doubles in size Develops significant natural weaponry, and Will kill anything, that Threatens its Troop, or Competes with the Troop for resources." {Image: A group of Insectile Species, Rigid Biological Cast System...} " These Species have a Reproductive Biology which, Kills any that do not breed at least once per five year span, They reach Reproductive Maturity at age 5, and Generally Breed every Two years after that, To Maximize Life Span at Approximately 25 years. Sterile Hybrids can live up to 10 years." " These would Probably Welcome Remedial Biogenics, If they are applied universally, Which will probably require outside enforcement." " To complicate this issue These Evolved from a scavenger species, After the First Colonists of the Refuge died out, So they were never one of the Crew Species." The Senior Guardian of IF ================================= Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Elders and Guardians On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:39:16 -0700 Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008704 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008703 >" The Next Issue Your Honor, > Is that This Race is Neither Innately Malevolent, nor > The Greatest Hazard to others, > Of those Resident in The Refuges of The Blue Horizon." > >" Arguably those descriptives may apply more to These Races." > > {Image: A Reptilian Trooping(like apes) Species, > Non-sentient in Childhood or Breeder Age Groups.} > The Warrior age Group doubles in size > Develops significant natural weaponry, and > Will kill anything, that > Threatens its Troop, or > Competes with the Troop for resources." > Aurora pauses for a few seconds. /*"These creatures are actually dangerous, and will become more so with uncontroled advancement. It would be better to -help- them evolve into a race that -can- look beyond their own kind as 'the troop'. It will take a single mutation with a positive dominant trait and other than the -positive- change will not otherwise diminish either their potential, or their options. It is unlikely that this mutation will occur on its own or the child survive without -assistance-. I will deal with this problem. When this trial is over"*/ Aurora states. >{Image: A group of Insectile Species, > Rigid Biological Cast System...} >" These Species have a Reproductive Biology which, > Kills any that do not breed at least once per five year span, > They reach Reproductive Maturity at age 5, and > Generally Breed every Two years after that, > To Maximize Life Span at Approximately 25 years. > Sterile Hybrids can live up to 10 years." > >" These would Probably Welcome Remedial Biogenics, > If they are applied universally, > Which will probably require outside enforcement." >" To complicate this issue These Evolved from a scavenger species, > After the First Colonists of the Refuge died out, > So they were never one of the Crew Species." /*"This also I or my people can deal with, after the trial is concluded."*/ Aurora offers. ================================= Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 00:19:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AAE 6c: Elders, Guardians, and a Champion On Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:42:54 -0700 Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008740 >On 09-11-2000 at 12:06:04 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008703 > >>On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:39:59 -0700 >>Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008702 >> >>>FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008701 >>> >>>" As you can see your Ancestors Actions, >>> Were the Basis of the Most effective, >>> Preventative for Atrocities ever seen. >>> In Short Leaving your history alone, >>> Is the Least Damaging Option we could find." >> >>/*"So much for the simple, easy, answer."*/ Aurora sighs. Roland--or rather, his robotic waldo--reappears. (OOC: If I find the time, I'll write a spinoff explaining his difficulties with the Black Paladin back home.) He looks vaguely smug. /"Really?"/ >>/*"No, the severity of the action cannot be diminished by the simple >>fact that it failed. Had chance not interceeded, it might well have >>succeeded."*/ Aurora adds. /"You sure it was just chance, Aurora?"/ Roland comments as evenly as possible. His satisfaction seems to be increasing. >" The Next Issue Your Honor, > Is that This Race is Neither Innately Malevolent, nor > The Greatest Hazard to others, > Of those Resident in The Refuges of The Blue Horizon." > >" Arguably those descriptives may apply more to These Races." >" These would Probably Welcome Remedial Biogenics, Roland winces audibly at the phrase "remedial biogenics." [Such a _lovely_ euphemism...] he thinks with a queasy feeling in his stomach. > If they are applied universally, > Which will probably require outside enforcement." >" To complicate this issue These Evolved from a scavenger species, > After the First Colonists of the Refuge died out, > So they were never one of the Crew Species." /"Okay. So basically, what you're saying is, as horrible as the actions of the Blue Horizon's crew were, that their actions were the most beneficial possible considering the horrible conditions and stakes involved, and that they're far from the most egregious example of a dangerous species."/ Roland looks up a bit and smiles to himself. [No one ever listens to _me,_ oh no, I'm just the kid who hasn't even lived one mortal lifetime. I couldn't _possibly_ know what I'm talking about.] /"Gee, that sounds familiar."/ /"But Roland,"/ Eric responds, /"the benefits aren't the _point._ These beings have a genetic and psychic predisposition to what they did."/ Eric fills Roland in on the testimony in a quick psi-link {} burst. Roland's eyes water for a moment--Eric's got a more analytical bent than is immediately obvious--then his smile broadens. /"Ah, but that just _confirms_ what I'm saying, Hunter. What they did was ingrained in them--and what was ingrained in them was to make the best possible choice. It was horrible, but what little evidence of the situation we've already seen shows that they'd already been subjected to horrible attacks. Whether or not they were consciously aware of every possible ramification of their actions, they did their absolute best in an amazingly ugly situation. The results that the Guardians are speaking of, as well as their own willingness to accept judgement half a billion years later, prove it."/ /"Does anyone here think there's any reason _not_ to dismiss the case in light of the accumulated evidence?"/ (OOC: Light, I hope not--6c's been going on for almost 11 months.) ================================= Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:46:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: AAE 6c: Guardians of the Mew-niverse On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:30:05 -0700 Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008748 >On 09-11-2000 at 12:06:04 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008703 Mew cocks her head from behind a stoic (okay, bored)-looking Eric. "mew mew?" (Lens translation: Now what?) "You've got me, Mew," Eric replies. >" The Next Issue Your Honor, > Is that This Race is Neither Innately Malevolent, nor > The Greatest Hazard to others, > Of those Resident in The Refuges of The Blue Horizon." Mew smiles. "mew!" --and vanishes from behind Eric. >" Arguably those descriptives may apply more to These Races." Mew reappears behind the head of the Senior Guardian of IF. She cocks her head to the right, looking at the SGoI's neck like a pink, bald, feline version of the RCA dog. She slowly begins to roll in that direction. > {Image: A Reptilian Trooping(like apes) Species, > Non-sentient in Childhood or Breeder Age Groups.} > The Warrior age Group doubles in size > Develops significant natural weaponry, and > Will kill anything, that > Threatens its Troop, or > Competes with the Troop for resources." > Mew continues to turn in place, her body leaning in the direction in which her head had tilted. "mew." >{Image: A group of Insectile Species, > Rigid Biological Cast System...} >" These Species have a Reproductive Biology which, > Kills any that do not breed at least once per five year span, > They reach Reproductive Maturity at age 5, and > Generally Breed every Two years after that, > To Maximize Life Span at Approximately 25 years. > Sterile Hybrids can live up to 10 years." > Mew's roll has put her at about 120 degrees from her original upright position. She "mew!"s in an especially cute manner at this point. >" These would Probably Welcome Remedial Biogenics, > If they are applied universally, > Which will probably require outside enforcement." >" To complicate this issue These Evolved from a scavenger species, > After the First Colonists of the Refuge died out, > So they were never one of the Crew Species." Mew has turned completely upside down. Her tail bobs in front of the SGoI's head for a fraction of a second. Her paws dart to her mouth, and she lets out a faint, embarrassed "mew," and vanishes with a popping sound. Tiny pink bubbles float slowly down from above the SGoI's head. ================================= Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Guardians of the Mew-niverse On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:34:06 -0400 Mike Knight Said As CAoL Message # 00008751 >On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:30:05 -0700 >Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008748 > >>On 09-11-2000 at 12:06:04 >>FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008703 > > Mew cocks her head from behind a stoic (okay, bored)-looking Eric. >"mew mew?" (Lens translation: Now what?) > "You've got me, Mew," Eric replies. > >>" The Next Issue Your Honor, >> Is that This Race is Neither Innately Malevolent, nor >> The Greatest Hazard to others, >> Of those Resident in The Refuges of The Blue Horizon." > > Mew smiles. "mew!" --and vanishes from behind Eric. > >>" Arguably those descriptives may apply more to These Races." >>" To complicate this issue These Evolved from a scavenger species, >>After the First Colonists of the Refuge died out, >>So they were never one of the Crew Species." > > Mew has turned completely upside down. Her tail bobs in front of >the SGoI's head for a fraction of a second. Her paws dart to her >mouth, and she lets out a faint, embarrassed "mew," and vanishes with >a popping sound. Tiny pink bubbles float slowly down from above the >SGoI's head. From the globals comes the voice and image of Major Donald West of the Jupiter Two, who'd been leading this mission before the "away team" went to investigate refuge 0. "Stranger," Don says, "I'm not about to tell you how to do your job, if what I understand of your -- uh, other profession is true, but it seems from back here that if this race isn't evil by nature that what their ancestors did, no matter how horrendous, shouldn't be laid on their shoulders. Now, here we have an expert witness telling us this is the case. I'd suggest we strike out what's been said about these other races, especially as the second one, assuming I heard him right, wasn't part of the crew and isn't up for judgement. The only race up for judgement is the race there in that refuge. And since they aren't evil, they aren't deserving of genocide. Personally, I can't think of any race who would be deserving, and even my homicide list is very short. So we would seem to have a resolution to the case, barring any court procedures that have to be concluded first. Whether these people agree with this decision or not is up to them, and whether we get the Cosmic Engineer, Rod of Despair, Key to Vengence, whathaveyou is up to them too, but at the moment, I can't see any other way it could go and think we ought to move on with this thing, whether they've got more witnesses to call or want to cross-examine or whether they just take our decision and decide if we're the proper hands to be passing this magical doodad over to. Again, do as you see fit, but I think our majority has already reached a conclusion, possibly before the starting bell, and we're waiting for these folks to prove their guilt or accept that they are innocent. Or that we're saying there are some punishments that will never be used, no matter the crime. Take your pick." "Anyway," Don concludes, "Sorry for butting in, but just had to say something." ================================= Subject: AAE 6c: Elders, Guardians, and a Champion Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:30:44 -0700 (PDT) On 09-28-2000 at 13:00:37 Nemisis Said As CAoL Message # 00008758 >On Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:42:54 -0700 >Roland X Said As CAoL Message # 00008740 > >>On 09-11-2000 at 12:06:04 >>FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008703 >> >>>On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:39:59 -0700 >>>Dane Said As CAoL Message # 00008702 >>> >>>>FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008701 >>>> >>>>" As you can see your Ancestors Actions, >>>> Were the Basis of the Most effective, >>>> Preventative for Atrocities ever seen. >>>> In Short Leaving your history alone, >>>> Is the Least Damaging Option we could find." >>> >>>/*"So much for the simple, easy, answer."*/ Aurora sighs. > > Roland--or rather, his robotic waldo--reappears. (OOC: If I find >the time, I'll write a spinoff explaining his difficulties with the >Black Paladin back home.) He looks vaguely smug. /"Really?"/ Nemisis looks interested in what connection he has seen. >>>/*"No, the severity of the action cannot be diminished by the >>>simple fact that it failed. Had chance not interceeded, it might >>>well have succeeded."*/ Aurora adds. > > /"You sure it was just chance, Aurora?"/ Roland comments as evenly >as possible. His satisfaction seems to be increasing. Nemisis seems to be thinking hard... >>" The Next Issue Your Honor, >> Is that This Race is Neither Innately Malevolent, nor >> The Greatest Hazard to others, >> Of those Resident in The Refuges of The Blue Horizon." >> >>" Arguably those descriptives may apply more to These Races." >>" These would Probably Welcome Remedial Biogenics, > > Roland winces audibly at the phrase "remedial biogenics." [Such a >_lovely_ euphemism...] he thinks with a queasy feeling in his >stomach. > /"Okay. So basically, what you're saying is, as horrible as the >actions of the Blue Horizon's crew were, that their actions were the >most beneficial possible considering the horrible conditions and >stakes involved, and that they're far from the most egregious example >of a dangerous species."/ Roland looks up a bit and smiles to >himself. [No one ever listens to _me,_ oh no, I'm just the kid who >hasn't even lived one mortal lifetime. I couldn't _possibly_ know >what I'm talking about.] /"Gee, that sounds familiar."/ "Within The Blue Horizon, There are more than a Thousand of these Ancient Races, Which I and I hope the StarSpwn Coalition of Light, Will have to check on before they are Released from the Ship." > /"But Roland,"/ Eric responds, /"the benefits aren't the _point._ >These beings have a genetic and psychic predisposition to what they >did."/ Eric fills Roland in on the testimony in a quick psi-link {} >burst. > > Roland's eyes water for a moment--Eric's got a more analytical >bent than is immediately obvious--then his smile broadens. /"Ah, but >that just _confirms_ what I'm saying, Hunter. What they did was >ingrained in them--and what was ingrained in them was to make the >best possible choice. It was horrible, but what little evidence of >the situation we've already seen shows that they'd already been >subjected to horrible attacks. Whether or not they were consciously >aware of every possible ramification of their actions, they did their >absolute best in an amazingly ugly situation. The results that the >Guardians are speaking of, as well as their own willingness to accept >judgement half a billion years later, prove it."/ "Perhaps Not, It seems that there is something about the Nature of The MatrixCosm, That Resists egregious Destruction... They may have been Used by that..." > /"Does anyone here think there's any reason _not_ to dismiss the >case in light of the accumulated evidence?"/ > (OOC: Light, I hope not--6c's been going on for almost 11 months.) FailSafe will be sending a message later with more of the Evidence, That Stanger would have gotten from Questioning those that Aurora, Made available... ================================= Subject: Re: AAE6c: Justice (I hope) in Refuge 0 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:24:27 -0700 (PDT) On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:03:11 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008761 >On 08-22-2000 at 11:30:36 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008662 > >> Roland looks sour for a moment. /*"And we have the right to >>decide this because...?"*/ He looks at the gathered residents. >>/Unless the entire species agrees to the request--not difficult to >>determine, given the scale of their telepathy--it isn't our call./ > >*Actually they Asked The Stranger, > Which may make more sense than you perceive at first glance, > A Full Lensman {Lensmans Load implicit}, and > An Avatar of the Eternal Champion... > Though, I do not know how they perceived that...* ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Elders and Guardians Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:24:32 -0700 (PDT) On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:11:19 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008762 >On 09-09-2000 at 12:16:43 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008701 > >>It seems that the Senior Master of the Gaurdians of IF, >> Arrived Quietly and has been waiting for things to calm down a >> bit... >> >>"Your Honor, (Addressing Stranger) >> Assembled Elders, (Addressing to Gallery) >> I have come in answer to a Request, >> May I speak of the Issues Involved?" >> >>> Has anyone heard from The Stranger Lately?> >" The First Point that needs to be addressed, > Is the Elders Request for Assistance in Altering the Past. > I am sorry to have to say this But, > That Must not be done." >" Stopping the Creation of The Blue Horizon, > Led to the Collapse Generator being used 57 more times, > Over the next 500 Millennia, Ending in a Bloody Revolt, > When the Conquered peoples Exterminated More Species, > Than your Ancestors Did." > >" As you can see your Ancestors Actions, > Were the Basis of the Most effective, > Preventative for Atrocities ever seen. > In Short Leaving your history alone, > Is the Least Damaging Option we could find." "So, let me get this straight. In the culture I come from there is a concept of reasonable force, that is to say I may defend myself or another with the minimum amount of force necessary to stop the attacker. Now that concept does include flexibility according to the perceptions of the defender, but it seems to me that the actions of the Blue Horizon's crew would fall under the definition of reasonable force, in which case they are innocent of genocide." >" Only 97 Sentient Races have not yet been Recovered, and > 62 of those have had enough genetic material found, > That the species could be cloned, > If their Spirits do not find their way back to the Repaired Bodies. > >" Of the Pre-sentient Species Only 153 have not been Revived." "What of the non-sentient species?" ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Guardians of the Mew-niverse Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:24:38 -0700 (PDT) On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:14:29 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008763 >On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:34:06 -0400 >Mike Knight Said As CAoL Message # 00008751 > > From the globals comes the voice and image of Major Donald West >of the Jupiter Two, who'd been leading this mission before the "away >team" went to investigate refuge 0. > "Stranger," Don says, "I'm not about to tell you how to do your >job, if what I understand of your -- uh, other profession Lensman> is true, but it seems from back here that if this race isn't >evil by nature that what their ancestors did, no matter how >horrendous, shouldn't be laid on their shoulders. Now, here we have >an expert witness telling us this is the case. I'd suggest we strike >out what's been said about these other races, especially as the >second one, assuming I heard him right, wasn't part of the crew and >isn't up for judgement. The only race up for judgement is the race >there in that refuge. And since they aren't evil, they aren't >deserving of genocide. Personally, I can't think of any race who >would be deserving, and even my homicide list is very short. So we >would seem to have a resolution to the case, barring any court >procedures that have to be concluded first. Whether these people >agree with this decision or not is up to them, and whether we get the >Cosmic Engineer, Rod of Despair, Key to Vengence, whathaveyou is up >to them too, but at the moment, I can't see any other way it could go >and think we ought to move on with this thing, whether they've got >more witnesses to call or want to cross-examine or whether they just >take our decision and decide if we're the proper hands to be passing >this magical doodad over to. Again, do as you see fit, but I think >our majority has already reached a conclusion, possibly before the >starting bell, and we're waiting for these folks to prove their guilt >or accept that they are innocent. Or that we're saying there are some >punishments that will never be used, no matter the crime. Take your >pick." > "Anyway," Don concludes, "Sorry for butting in, but just had to >say something." "No problem, I prefer the French system to the English system anyway, so your point of view is valued. Judgement appears to rest on my shoulders however, and I believe I am close to a judgement. ================================= Subject: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:24:21 -0700 (PDT) On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:02:41 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008760 Stranger stands and brings the court to order. "I have a judgement, of sorts, for you. I do not know if I have the right to judge you, but I find myself in a position where it is required of me. I have considered the facts laid before me and weighed them in the light of my own experience and knowledge." "Before I give my verdict, I would like to thank all who have spoken here and assisted me in coming to my judgement. The contribution of each of you is most appreciated." "On the charge of genocide I find you, as a race, not guilty. I believe your actions fell within my understanding of reasonable force." "On the charge of having within you the potential to commit genocide again, I find you guilty. The sentance is eternal vigilance." "However, I find you guilty of an additional charge, not in my mandate, but I fully believe you to be guilty. The charge is wasting your potential while waiting for judgement. For this charge I sentance you to be Agents of Justice." "I understand this charge has been admitted at the last moment and no-one has had a chance to speak to the issue. I will hear any objections anyone has." "The sentance is twofold. I charge you to be agents of justice. You will spread out beyond the refuge, and wherever you go you will bring justice, through your words and your deeds. You will guide the younger and less powerful races, helping them to make just decisions and if necessary compelling them to act justly. In dealing with more powerful races you will use diplomacy and shame to bring justice to them. In your dealings with other races you will always err on the side of mercy where the most just path is not clear. Finally, your greatest thinkers have an additional task, to find out what justice is exactly. I have a present for you, to help you in this task." Reaching into a duffle bag he produces some books: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights The Illuminatus Trilogy The Bible Batman:No Mans Land Churchill's History of the English Speaking Peoples Mein Kampf A History of the Last of the Babylon Stations "Some of these will tell you more about what justice is. Some will tell you more about what justice is not. I leave telling the difference as an exercise for you." "The other thing I charge you with is eternal vigilance. You will strenuously seek out and remove any of your number who might possibly repeat the terrible events of the war. In this you will err on the side of caution, no chances must be taken with this." Stranger's voice has become somewhat louder than normal, it is clear he's speaking with a certain amount of passion. People near him will notice his shirt is soaked with fresh sweat. "It is a difficult judgement I hand to you, if you accept it there will be times when you curse me for it. Times when the light is far away the path to justice is not clear. Times when the path to justice is clear but the price of justice is too terrible." "That is my judgement. My friends and I will assist you in whatever way we can. How say you?" ================================= Subject: ReAAE 6cJudgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 231735 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 015232 -0400 Mike Knight Said As CAoL Message # 00008764 >On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 210241 +0100 (BST) >Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008760 > >"On the charge of genocide I find you, as a race, not guilty. I >believe your actions fell within my understanding of reasonable >force." From the park where Zia and Roger are doing their magic act, Michael smiles to himself. [There's an angle I wouldn't have thought of, good call.] >"On the charge of having within you the potential to commit genocide >again, I find you guilty. The sentance is eternal vigilance." Michael's smile widens slightly. >"However, I find you guilty of an additional charge, not in my >mandate, but I fully believe you to be guilty. The charge is wasting >your potential while waiting for judgement. For this charge I >sentance you to be Agents of Justice." Michael manages to refrain from clapping until an appropriate time in the act before him, but a definite /Yes!/ comes across the Lens-Link. >Reaching into a duffle bag he produces some books > >The Universal Declaration of Human Rights >The Illuminatus Trilogy >The Bible >BatmanNo Mans Land >Churchill's History of the English Speaking Peoples >Mein Kampf >A History of the Last of the Babylon Stations Callahan's Chronicals (with the Lady Sally's and Mary's Place books included) >"Some of these will tell you more about what justice is. Some will >tell you more about what justice is not. I leave telling the >difference as an exercise for you." Michael nods, /Very poetic. I like./ >"That is my judgement. My friends and I will assist you in whatever >way we can. How say you?" Hands in his pockets, Michael crosses his fingers. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:52:14 -0700 (PDT) On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:42:59 -0700 Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00008765 >On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:02:41 +0100 (BST) >Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008760 > >Stranger stands and brings the court to order. >"However, I find you guilty of an additional charge, not in my >mandate, but I fully believe you to be guilty. The charge is wasting >your potential while waiting for judgement. For this charge I >sentance you to be Agents of Justice." /"Bravo!"/ Roland applauds. /"Exceptional."/ >Reaching into a duffle bag he produces some books: > >The Universal Declaration of Human Rights >The Illuminatus Trilogy >The Bible >Batman:No Mans Land >Churchill's History of the English Speaking Peoples >Mein Kampf >A History of the Last of the Babylon Stations > > /Well done, Stranger,/ Morgan's gentle voice wafts across the link. Pending motherhood seems to be suiting her, and the CAoL's Den Mother definitely sounds a bit more "maternal." /I'd like to recommend "The Fifth Sacred Thing," by an Earth writer named Starhawk. Not all of the book is necessarily relevant, but its concepts of not taking simple things for granted, and of what can happen when one group is allowed to slowly start exerting undue political pressure on those they dislike, might be an interesting addition to the mix./ /"I'd like to add: /"the Tao Te Ching /"Stranger in a Strange Land /"Star Wars (as a complete set; not just ep. IV) /"Brave and Bold 28-30; Justice League of America 1-200."/ Roland chuckles. /I would've said 'Dark Knight Returns' for a Bat-specific book, myself,/ he comments dryly. >On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 01:52:32 -0400 >Mike Knight Said As CAoL Message # 00008764 > >>On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:02:41 +0100 (BST) >>Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008760 >>"Some of these will tell you more about what justice is. Some will >>tell you more about what justice is not. I leave telling the >>difference as an exercise for you." > > Michael nods, /Very poetic. I like./ /"The best justice always is,"/ Roland replies. ================================= Subject: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 04:24:35 -0700 (PDT) On 10-01-2000 at 04:20:10 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008766 >On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:02:41 +0100 (BST) >Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008760 > >busy RL. Sorry.> >"On the charge of genocide I find you, as a race, not guilty. I >believe your actions fell within my understanding of reasonable >force." Aside: *"Especially since their Opponents could be Classed as Terrorists, I mean Really a 5 Day deadline on a Call for Unconditional Surrender, The Government was Still trying to get Advise on whether or not, Such a Weapon was even Possible..."* >"On the charge of having within you the potential to commit genocide >again, I find you guilty. The sentance is eternal vigilance." Aside: *"Just like ever other Sentient thing."* >"However, I find you guilty of an additional charge, not in my >mandate, but I fully believe you to be guilty. The charge is wasting >your potential while waiting for judgement. For this charge I >sentance you to be Agents of Justice." *"Now, That is an Interesting Twist..."* >"I understand this charge has been admitted at the last moment and >no-one has had a chance to speak to the issue. I will hear any >objections anyone has." *"They are an Elder Race, It seems fitting that they be Held to an Elders Responsibilities."* >"The sentance is twofold. I charge you to be agents of justice. You >will spread out beyond the refuge, and wherever you go you will bring >justice, through your words and your deeds. You will guide the >younger and less powerful races, helping them to make just decisions >and if necessary compelling them to act justly. In dealing with more >powerful races you will use diplomacy and shame to bring justice to >them. In your dealings with other races you will always err on the >side of mercy where the most just path is not clear. Finally, your >greatest thinkers have an additional task, to find out what justice >is exactly. I have a present for you, to help you in this task." *"Compelling? That sounds Questionable..."* >"That is my judgement. My friends and I will assist you in whatever >way we can. How say you?" *"Indeed I shall."* ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Elders and Guardians Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 04:24:41 -0700 (PDT) On 10-01-2000 at 04:20:11 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008767 >On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:11:19 +0100 (BST) >Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008762 >"What of the non-sentient species?" "About 70 Percent of the Genotypes have been Revived to date." The Senior Master of the Guardians of IF ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 04:36:13 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 06:15:11 EDT Scott Osborne Said As CAoL Message # 00008768 >In a message dated 9/30/00 2:25:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >glo writes: > >"Some of these will tell you more about what justice is. Some will >tell you more about what justice is not. I leave telling the >difference as an exercise for you." Scott appears, mutters something about needing to clean out some of his collection anyway, drops a rather large chest, and disappears. In the chest may be found: A Heavily _Annotated Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking Glass_ (There is a note in the book about which parts to pay attention to (notably, The Queen of Hearts), and explaining that any and all annotations involving the implications of these parts have been carefully removed.) The Book of G'Kar (Three copies; the original Narn version, an English translation dated 2312, and an Interlac version that claims the translation was personally supervised by G'Kar himself (with a handwritten inscription below the claim stating "Don't believe everything you read.").) The Autobiographies of Elisa Maza and Goliath (From the frontispiece, they were originally published separately, two years apart; Goliath's is labeled as his 'Sworn Testimony'. Three forwards are included; all were apparently written by David Xanatos, extracted from his own (intentionally unpublished) memoirs.) The Journals of the Vault Dweller and the Chosen One. (A very long, very large computer printout, written by two separate authors.) The Transcript of the Nuremberg Trials. Several videotapes of "Law & Order", all labeled "Don't try this at home, kids!" The Authoritative King Arthur (Includes the relevant works of Mallory, Tennyson, Twain, White, Lerner and Lowe, and, finally, Chapman, Cleese, et. al.) _Frankenstein, or Modern Prometheus_, By Mary Shelly (A handwritten note has been put in one of the margins near the end of the book: "Did the doctor deserve his fate? Did the doctor earn his fate? Did the doctor make his fate? Did the doctor become his fate?") "Charles Manson: In His Own Words", a boxed set of CDs. And many more obscure items. ("The Trial of Davros, In absentia", "A Brief Chronicle of the Nameless One", or "The Unjust Peace: The Prelude to The War of the Lilies, 2153-2181", anyone? Or how about a heavily underlined copy of "The Mythology of the Native Peoples of New Chicago"?) ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:13:56 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 01 Oct 2000 12:56:25 -0700 Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00008769 >On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 06:15:11 EDT >Scott Osborne Said As CAoL Message # 00008768 > >The Book of G'Kar (Three copies; the original Narn version, an >English translation dated 2312, and an Interlac version that claims >the translation was personally supervised by G'Kar himself (with a >handwritten inscription below the claim stating "Don't believe >everything you read.").) OOC-M: "Put your face in the book." ;-) >The Transcript of the Nuremberg Trials. OOC-R: Good choice. >The Authoritative King Arthur (Includes the relevant works of >Mallory, Tennyson, Twain, White, Lerner and Lowe, and, finally, >Chapman, Cleese, et. al.) Morgan pipes up, /You forgot Marion Zimmer Bradley./ Roland adds, /"While we're at it, throw in a few versions of 'Robin Hood'."/ ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:14:01 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:23:44 PST Nemo Said As CAoL Message # 00008770 >On 10-01-2000 at 04:20:10 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008766 > >*"Compelling? > That sounds Questionable..."* /It is at times the only practical meaning of complying with the strictures of Metalaw./ >> A sheet of "paper" appears with the Canons of Metalaw on it. A rather large book of "commentaries" appears next to it (on the hand truck needed to move it :-) The Canons of Metalaw First Canon (Haley's Rule): Do unto others as they would have you do unto them. Second Canon: The First Canon of Metalaw must not be applied if it might result in the destruction of an intelligent being. Third Canon: Any intelligent being may suspend adherence to the first two Canons of Metalaw in its own self-defense to prevent other intelligent beings from restricting its freedom of choice or destroying it. Fourth Canon: Any Intelligent being must not affect the freedom of choice or the survival of another intelligent being and must not, by inaction, permit the destruction of another intelligent being. Fifth Canon: Any intelligent being has the right of freedom of choice in lifestyle, living location, and socioeconomic cultural system consistent with the preceeding Canons of Metalaw. Sixth Canon: Sustained communication among intelligent beings must always be established and maintained with bilateral consent. Seventh Canon: Any intelligent being may move about at will in a fashion unrestricted by other intelligent beings provided that the Zone of Sensitivity of another intelligent being is not thereby violated without permission. Eighth Canon: In the event of canonical conflict in any relationship among intelligent beings, the involved beings shall settle said conflict by nonviolent concordance. Definitions Law: A system of rules of conduct and action governing the relationships between intelligent beings. These precepts are classified, reduced to order, put in the shape of rules, and mutually agreed upon. Metalaw: A system of law dealing with all frames of existence and with intelligent beings of all kinds. Intelligent being: An organized system having all of the following characteristics: A. Self-awareness. B. Time-binding sense -- able to consider the future, conceive optional future action, and act on the results thereof. C. Creative -- able to make bisociative syntheses of random matrices to produce new concepts. D. Behaviorly adaptive -- capable of overriding the programmed behavior of instinct with behavior adapted to perceived present or imagined future circumstances. E. Emphathetic -- capable of imaginative identification with another intelligent being. F. Communicative -- able to transmit information to another intelligent being in a meaningful manner. Zone of Sensitivity: A spherical region about an intelligent being that extends out to the threshold of sensory detection, pyhsio-bio-psycho-socio effects or some arbitary boundary within those limits that is announced by the being. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Elders and Guardians Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:14:09 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:48:53 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008771 >On 10-01-2000 at 04:20:11 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008767 > >>On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:11:19 +0100 (BST) >>Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008762 > > >>"What of the non-sentient species?" > >"About 70 Percent of the Genotypes have been Revived to date." "Good, good." Stranger nods, apparently satisfied. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:14:14 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:57:19 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008772 >On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:42:59 -0700 >Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00008765 > >/Well done, Stranger,/ Morgan's gentle voice wafts across the link. >Pending motherhood seems to be suiting her, and the CAoL's Den Mother >definitely sounds a bit more "maternal." /Thank you, I try my best./ > Roland chuckles. /I would've said 'Dark Knight Returns' for a >Bat-specific book, myself,/ he comments dryly. /Another good choice. The reason I chose No Mans Land is twofold, firstly I've read it more recently than Dark Knight Returns, secondly for the scene where Bats is faced with the 'judgement of solomon' puzzle, two mothers who each claim to be the best guardian for a child. Batmans solution is, ah, 'innovative'/ ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:14:20 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:48:18 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008773 >On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 06:15:11 EDT >Scott Osborne Said As CAoL Message # 00008768 > >The Book of G'Kar (Three copies; the original Narn version, an >English translation dated 2312, and an Interlac version that claims >the translation was personally supervised by G'Kar himself (with a >handwritten inscription below the claim stating "Don't believe >everything you read.").) Damn! How could I have forgotten The Book of G'Kar? Well done. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:14:26 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:53:53 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008774 >On 10-01-2000 at 04:20:10 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008766 > >>"On the charge of having within you the potential to commit genocide >>again, I find you guilty. The sentance is eternal vigilance." > >Aside: >*"Just like ever other Sentient thing."* *Precisely* >*"Compelling? > That sounds Questionable..."* "It is. I do not give them an easy task. Where justice is clear they must pursue it, even if the beneficiaries oppose them. But this is why I say they must err on the side of mercy where what is just is not clear. There is room for abuse here, which is why I also charge them to find out exactly what justice is. Usually it's clear, but sometimes justice will be very unclear." ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:05:07 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Ziactrice Roaming Said As CAoL Message # 00008776 >On Sun, 1 Oct 2000 01:52:32 -0400 >Mike Knight Said As CAoL Message # 00008764 > >>On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:02:41 +0100 (BST) >>Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008760 [Further pronouncements from Stranger...] > Michael manages to refrain from clapping until an appropriate >time in the act before him, but a definite /Yes!/ comes across the >Lens-Link. Ziactrice grins slightly, even as she does the 'levitate' dancing trick with a small silver ring in midair before her. [Stranger goes on with his judgement.] >>Reaching into a duffle bag he produces some books: When the request reaches Ziactrice for additional books, she first finishes her act, making the silver band disappear. Then she concentrates a moment, speaking to someone far removed, but not through the Lens. Possibly she is making use of a Trump? Several books teleport in, or are brought to the site by whatever means would not upset the 'Refugians': The Art of War (it being in several places more the 'Art of Winning without War) The Book of Five Rings The Tactics of Mistake The Ecolitian (sp?) Enigma The Number of the Beast, by R. Heinlein 1984, George Orwell The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin Then she turns to Roger and Mike and smiles sadly. "I hate to bail on you mid-quest, gentleman and prankster, but Something Dreadful has chanced elsewhere in Shadow that requires my full energies and efforts for a period of time that shall very likely exceed that which you will require to, um, rescue? Fuzzy. I cannot fully explain the nature of the problem, nor is it of a nature that the CAoL can be of significant help to me in dealing with. I do hope you'll forgive my impolite departure, but the matter is quite pressing." With that, the petite Amberite walks away without any motion to so much as shake hands. Her expression is a studied nuetrality that despite her skill, does little to hide the underlaying tension. ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:06:19 -0700 (PDT) On 10-05-2000 at 01:49:44 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008787 Writing for the Assembled Elders of Refuge 0 >On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:42:59 -0700 >Morgan and/or Roland Said As CAoL Message # 00008765 > >>On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:02:41 +0100 (BST) >>Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008760 >> >>Stranger stands and brings the court to order. > >>"On the charge of genocide I find you, as a race, not guilty. I >>believe your actions fell within my understanding of reasonable >>force." >> >>"On the charge of having within you the potential to commit genocide >>again, I find you guilty. The sentance is eternal vigilance." >> >>"However, I find you guilty of an additional charge, not in my >>mandate, but I fully believe you to be guilty. The charge is wasting >>your potential while waiting for judgement. For this charge I >>sentance you to be Agents of Justice." *We accept the Additional Charge* >>"The sentance is twofold. I charge you to be agents of justice. You >>will spread out beyond the refuge, and wherever you go you will >>bring justice, through your words and your deeds. You will guide the >>younger and less powerful races, helping them to make just decisions >>and if necessary compelling them to act justly. In dealing with more >>powerful races you will use diplomacy and shame to bring justice to >>them. In your dealings with other races you will always err on the >>side of mercy where the most just path is not clear. Finally, your >>greatest thinkers have an additional task, to find out what justice >>is exactly. I have a present for you, to help you in this task." *Thank You All for your Gifts of Thought.* >>"That is my judgement. My friends and I will assist you in whatever >>way we can. How say you?" *We Accept your Findings and Sentence.* *Having Observed your Deliberations, and The Care that was shown to Hear all of the Opinions, and Having seen that Your Judgment is, Neither Capricious nor Hasty, That None of you seriously considered trying to "Give us the judgment we wanted, merely to get the Artifact." We Believe you can be trusted with The Artifacts you Seek.* *If we understand the nature of the artifacts Correctly, The Object which made the Collapse Generator Functional, Controlled the Functions of the precise definitions of, Position and Energy... This Object was beyond the Power of The Blue Horizon to Destroy. We left it at These {} Coordinates, Normal Motion should have carried it to here {} at this time. Unless it has been found by Others...* The Senior Master of The Guardians of IF interjects " This is likely to be a Major Problem, That is right in the Path of, The Offensive arm of the Plooran Grand Fleet, They have managed to protect their Command channels from Paradox, Now this..." " They seek to Enslave the Most Powerful race of Line-Walker Mages In the Matrix, The Titans themselves. Having found them while searching that Realm and Galaxy, For Lady Zia and The Sextant of Time..." " There are only three native Military Forces which could stop them. If the Civilization of The Lens commits their mobile forces, They could stop the Plooran's For Now, But the Price would be, The Eventual Triumph of Ploor in their Galaxies. The Fleet which Guards The Eye of Heaven, Will not leave its Post. This Ship is the Third and Last of native Military Forces Capable of Stopping The Plooran Fleet..." The Elders Respond * We do not wish to see this ship used so again, Is there No Other Option?* TBC ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 05:27:32 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 4 Oct 2000 22:03:41 -0400 Dhyrclhanc Said As CAoL Message # 00008788 >On Sat, 30 Sep 2K Stranger Said > > a vertical B5-style jump-point forms above the growing pile and a colection of several more items fall down, adding to the conglomeration.... An excellent quality copy of G'kar's original handwriten "Statment of Beliefs of the Interstellar Alliance. A complete set of the main books in the Lensman Chronicals. OOC: Perhaps the above is belaboring the obvious. A complete set of all three(?) seasons of the CBS/CBC/BBC produced "Due South" TV Show on 20th c. VSH VCR tapes. Both sets of Jack L. Chalker's two "Well-World" book series. An complete set of plans for the Whitestar-Class Corvette/Escort Class Ship (ie, a standard B5 "Army of Light" Whitestar on an B5-style optical crystal chip storage medium. OOC2: Fuzzy, ignore this if it's beneath their tech level capabilities. ... And finally, the collected log-entry files of Odo, the Primary Security Officer (aka "Constable) of Federation Space Station Deep Space 9 on a Star Trek-style PADD. >"That is my judgement. My friends and I will assist you in whatever >way we can. How say you?" If the PADD is flipped over, this action will reveal a 3M Post-It Note(tm) adhered to the back which reads, in thick blue ink, "Laws change, but Justice always stays the same." > ... and that's *my* $.04... ================================= Subject: Re: AAE 6c: Judgement in Refuge 0 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:46:57 -0700 (PDT) On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:01:27 +0100 (BST) Stranger Said As CAoL Message # 00008839 >On 10-05-2000 at 01:49:44 >FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008787 > >*We Accept your Findings and Sentence.* Stranger nods. ================================= Subject: The Cosmic Engineer Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:24:00 -0800 (PST) On 10-31-2000 at 23:20:17 FailSafe Said As CAoL Message # 00008939 The Elders of Refuge 0 * Eldest Please see to a Non-Discretionary Evacuation, Of the Non-Crew Personnel currently aboard The Blue Horizon. Then Prepare the ship for Shutdown Sequence 47b.* *Confirmed* *Friends it is Time to say goodbye. Here is a Gate back to The First Realm.* A Gate opens to the Inside Surface of the First Realm AKA The Fuzzy Home Dyson Sphere * I will join your Representative on The External Surface of The First Realm momentarily. With 'The Cosmic Engineer'* Anyone still in the Ship proper, Has a Gate back to where they entered from open next to them, And A Grav. Field pushing them through smoothly, No Tidal Shear etc... The Grave Force will Ramp up to whatever it takes, or as much as 90,000,000 Gs, Once the individual is through the Gate, Or the Grav. Field hits Maximum, The Gate will close, and The Grav. Field will shutdown. The Nemisis Split that was present in CiC with that Roger dup, Waits on the Outside of the Dyson Sphere, After Merging with the Split, That has been keeping Major West company. One of the Elders arrives a about Three Minutes later, Opening another Door from Inside the Ship... She is Carrying The Cosmic Engineer, and Another Piece of Equipment... The Comis Engineer looks Like a Meter long Rough Crystal Composite. She Sets Down the Portable Gate Generator, and Activates it In the Distance you can See the Hull of The Blue Horizon... *This will ony take a few Minutes, When The Rod of Dispair Returns it will be Yours.* Multi-Colored light flashes through the Rod, Then she Extends it into the Gate and Releases it. *Fair Well.* Stepping Back through the Door she Arrived from, All Doors and Gates into The Blue Horizon Close. The Cosmic Engineer can be seen to impact the Hull, Which Ripples like Water and then Winks out. Then Returns to The Gate it was launched from, Where the Nemisis Split takes hold of it. FailSafe says *Interesting They have Converted it into a Pocket Realm, Galactic Size and Mass, The Singularity Is Expanding into a Normal Galactic Structure, The Temporal Shear is Extreme, At its present slope, I expect it to drop to 1-1 In about a Year Outside Time, That will be about five thousand years their time, After the Refuges are integrated into the New Galaxy, ... WHAT ... {Shock}, {Thoughtful} Well that explains that Mystery...* *Within the Matrix Various AfterLives and ReIncarnation methods, Are Proven Fact. The True Horror of the Collapse Generator, Was that not even the Spirits of the Dead Escaped...* *The Loom of Space as the key component of the Collapse Generator, Must have ReDefined the Mass Locus of all particles, In the Effected Volume, As being at the Center of the Volume, That process is now being reversed, The Inhabitants seem to be alive...* =================================