Gab in the Grove

I’ll only be around for another hour at most, but I wanted to toss out another one of these. These “grove” posts are meant to be pagan-friendly, but that doesn’t mean pagan only :-). Everyone is welcome!

Now, for a starter subject… we’re between sabbats, between new and full moon, and the main pagan subject in the news (Sgt. Stewart’s lack of a headstone since the VA has been jerking us around for 9 years plus over approving the pentagram) has already been covered.

Today’s the first of June, which may or may not be named for Juno, Roman goddess of marriage, childbirth, and related feminine/maternal stuff. Commentary?

Another site says, “June is International Accordion Awareness Month. It is also Celibacy Awareness Month. These two may be related.” 😉

It’s also Children’s Awareness Month, National Rivers Month, National Safety Month, National Rose Month, National Dairy Month and Pride Month (due to the anniversary of the Stonewall Riots on June 27).

If that doesn’t give y’all something to talk about, feel free to suggest something else :-).


speaking of pride…. (4.00 / 5)

Got this from soulforce – will probably diary it when I have some time for more than a hit and run, but thought I’d share…  they are putting up anti-FMA and pro-awareness / equality billboards in Frists district.

and I’m really mad at Human Rights Campaign for endorsing Lieberman…. like not renew my membership in protest mad.   Thoughts?
on the one hand HRC does some great work – on the other hand….  they seem too willing to tuck their tail in DC…    

given how little $ I have, I think I’d rather support Lamont and Soulforce than give Human Rights Campaign any money right now.

maybe it’s just that I’m doomed to a love / hate with all things HRC – Hill drives me nuts too 🙂

So… what is 1138?
Read My Left Wing

by its simple IF you ignore the complexity on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 16:41:37 PDT

I will never give HRC a dime. (4.00 / 7)

And I was troll-rated at dKos for saying so. Pity.

HRC used to be HRCF (“fund”), and as such came out to Oregon years ago to conduct a fundraiser that was heavily marketed as an event to help us defeat the Oregon Citizens’ Alliance initiative that would’ve barred LGBT people from any public-sector job (including teaching), and that declared us ‘abnormal and perverse’ as well.

Harvey Fierstein was the keynote, tons of money was dumped into the effort – and damn near every penny of it went back to DC, leaving the grassroots effort here next to nothing on hand to fight the initiative. Many of the attendees had given beyond their means there, thinking it’d help fight what we were up against. When a stink was raised (including by Fierstein), they sent back a fucking token amount.

(And no, I don’t swear often at all. I’m still pissed. It’s been over a decade, and they’ve done nothing at all to redeem their image with me.)

If you’re looking for a place to drop a dollar, check out the Task Force. I worked for them as a f/t volunteer in 1992/93, in a field office in Portland. Their byline is “Building LGBT Political Power from the Ground Up” – and they mean it.

My company does various things with HRC (we score 100% on their Equality Index or whatever they call it) – I have the option to attend some of their events on the corporate dime, but won’t do it.

(Let me know if you want me to tell you how I really feel. 🙂 )

“I like to go into Marshall Field’s in Chicago just to see all the things there are in the world that I do not want.”M. Madeleva, C.S.C.

by paxpdx on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 17:51:01 PDT

Celibacy Month, huh… (4.00 / 6)

I guess out of all the Street Prophets here, I’m probably the only one who is celibate by choice. Some might be effectively celibate by being between relationships or something, but I do it because of many factors, not just because I’m alone.

What do you all think about celibacy?


Choo Choo Q. ~Retired locomotive engineer, Author, Wiccan priestess–and snarky were-wolverine since 1999.

by Quotefiend on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 17:25:51 PDT

no, you’re not the only one (4.00 / 6)

celibacy suits me well. I am 27 and really expect to be celibate for life.

by Elizabeth D on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 18:06:51 PDT

I could do it for a month… 😉 (4.00 / 6)

Actually I have been through years at a time without sexual contact; but it was not easy, and it was more a function of isolation than choice (although I chose to be isolated, it was not for this reason.)

I’ve always felt that it may be easier for women than for men to make this choice, due to physiological factors; but this may be just a man’s perspective!

When I came out to my parents, they suggested that celibacy may be a safer choice than having lovers.  I reminded them that even the apostle Paul said that celibacy was a gift; and over the long run, it’s not a gift a have…

You’ve been very open about having been raped, Quotefiend, and I feel that there are no easy words that can give this topic the necessary weight.  But I am curious as to what other factors may contribute to your celibacy.  It’s also very likely that a public forum like this one isn’t the appropriate place for such a conversation — so I’ll leave it at that.

I do think that there are benefits to be gained by avoiding the neurotic entanglements and emotional imbalances that so often accompany a sexual relationship.  For me, sex is very much like smoking cigarrettes — I “quit” immediately after each and every butt.  heh

by spotDawa on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 18:08:47 PDT

Other factors (4.00 / 5)

Well…let me think a minute.

I’ve been conciously celibate since my divorce in 2001. I was celibate the last 10 years of my marriage due to factors like:

My Ex’s preoccupation with child (teen) porn,

My naturally low libido,

My flashbacks to rape everytime I’ve had sex since the ’70’s.

My Ex was not a bad lover and did nothing to warrant my flashbacks, except for the act of sex itself. We couldn’t get past it, and I just shied away after a few years. I was never one for frequent sex in the first place, and the rapes sealed my fate, permenantly shifting me away from sex if I could arrange it.

I guess I sublimated those energies into my work and my writing. As you know, spot, my characters have a fairly good sex life…LOL…though one character goes through the same TYPE of thing I did, with similar results. Her experiences are not mine alone, but a combination of mine and other women I knew on the Railroad.

So, I’m celibate because I am single, disabled, and don’t believe I will ever find a human who will put up with my asexuality, strange beliefs, wierd ideas, and snarky intelligence without extensive retraining, for which I have no energy. In a way, it’s a path of least resistance, but I’m realizing that admitting I am celibate–and choose to stay that way–is very liberating to me. I can now truly focus on spirituality and writing with no personal distractions (except for my sister and her hubby, who live with me).

Will it last the rest of my life? I don’t know. If Ev walked in and fell for me, as flawed as I am, I’d have to think it over pretty damned quick!

I’m not sure if that covers it, but I’m always open to change.

Love and Light,


Choo Choo Q. ~Retired locomotive engineer, Author, Wiccan priestess–and snarky were-wolverine since 1999.

by Quotefiend on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 19:56:27 PDT

Thank you (4.00 / 3)

It is definitely true that celibacy makes channeling our energy into work and spirit much — well, maybe not easier, but at least, less complicated.  It helps us focus.  

And I completely relate to the issue of “retraining.”  If it seems like it’s not worth the effort, it probably isn’t!  Romantic relationships are always a mixed bag (though I suppose I should only be speaking for my own experience here.)

Mostly I’m very happy that you have found a sense of liberation in celibacy.  And I can personally attest to the love that moves in you through your work.  

There’s none but shallow reasons to believe that sexuality is the only outlet for love.  And certainly many poor souls have been crushed by the realization that the consummation of their love has been nothing more than a sex act for their beloved.  

Of course I’m also a hopeless romantic (as opposed to the hopeful variety), so I like the idea that if your Ev walks through the door, you’ll be open to change!  Ya never know.

One more thought — on the association of sex with rape, or any negative experience impinging on what would otherwise be a positive one: I was shocked to hear it pointed out by someone (don’t remember) that making love after a big fight, or even hugging and touching as a way of giving comfort in bad circumstances, can lead to alienation of physical contact by the association of the touch and the emotion.  Very surprising but very simple idea, and you touch on this later in the story too — as you mentioned above.

by spotDawa on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 22:13:14 PDT

Um … nope. (4.00 / 7)

I’m about 1.5 years through a 4 year discipline that includes celibacy, among many other lifestyle choices. And of course, once making that decision but before the ‘start date’, options to change my mind were… er… plentiful and abundant.

For the first six months, same thing. Options to change my mind were very, very available.

I’m generally wary about talking about it, because I’m very aware of the Catholic hierarchy’s teaching that the only good homosexual is a celibate homosexual. That does NOT represent my beliefs, and my particular discipline is rather incidental to any doctrinal Catholicism, but very much geared toward an overall very personal exploration of a radical form of hospitality.

Maybe I’ll diary more about it someday, but that’s the basics.

“I like to go into Marshall Field’s in Chicago just to see all the things there are in the world that I do not want.”M. Madeleva, C.S.C.

by paxpdx on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 18:37:32 PDT

hospitality (4.00 / 5)

I think I know what you probably mean. For me a lightbulb went on in my head at some point about celibacy/chastity making sense in the context of a life of exclusive love for God (deep contemplative life) and non-exclusive love for all people. My experience so far has been very positive.

by Elizabeth D on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 19:13:12 PDT

Now you’ll have to diary. (4.00 / 5)

I’m intrigued.

As to my own thoughts on the subject, I think sexuality as a whole is such an intensely personal subject that making any judgements about anyone’s sexual choices is unwise. A couple of years ago, I would have probably told you that I simply wouldn’t be capable of celibacy. Now, I think I could do it if for some reason I felt like I had to. I can’t imagine choosing it, though.

Street Prophets Livejournal Feed

by Expat Briton on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 21:31:35 PDT

I couldn’t imagine choosing it either (4.00 / 4)

Which is sorta why I had to try.

For what it’s worth, when I was responsible for opening & setting up my church last week, as I turned on the lights, I noted the four switches that were marked “DO NOT USE”. I’ve seen them many times in the past 3 years or so.

(Nothing happened. :^) )

The whole “four year” thing is sorta nebulous, as is the “1.5 years through it” – because I honestly don’t remember when it became a conscious choice, don’t know if that’s the point where I should begin counting or a few months earlier, and there wasn’t even any logic or reason behind the time period – purely arbitrary. I just know that I wanted an ‘endpoint’, although I never ruled out ending it should the Spirit indicate that It Was Time.

Now that I think about it, I know I’ve been thinking that I’m a year and a half into it for many, many months now – maybe even a year? – so that ‘discipline’ word may be a stretch, too.

However, now that Morgan’s pointed out that this is Celibacy Month (or is it week?) – perhaps if there’s greeting cards involved, I should celebrate!

“I like to go into Marshall Field’s in Chicago just to see all the things there are in the world that I do not want.”M. Madeleva, C.S.C.

by paxpdx on Thu Jun 1st, 2006 at 22:32:53 PDT

I would very much like to be (4.00 / 5)

getting laid.  I have no problem with chastity; it’s my preferred mode.  But celibacy is something else again.

Unfortunately, the only guy I know at the moment who interests me at all isn’t interested, and I value the friendship he and I have very highly so I am not about to try to push it.

The way I look at it is, either my friend will change his mind (which is possible), or I will meet somebody else who is equally attractive (which is also possible – my taste in men is fairly widely available, after all).  

Until one or the other happens, I can wait.

by loggersbrat on Fri Jun 2nd, 2006 at 09:39:06 PDT

I am celibate as well… (4.00 / 4)

It is a really long story, and one I have not totally figured out myself. I do know it has to do with the Boddhisattva vow I took in a previous lifetime, shaping what is taking place in here and now.

I don’t know if I am meant to be this way for the rest of my life or not. I do know that the chances of it being different than it is now are very, very slim. Sometimes when I think of being alone for the rest of my life, I become frightened. But then I remember I only need to be concerned with today; the rest of my life will take care of itself and the fear abates immediately. And now, I am actually grateful that my life is this way, romantic relationships take soooo much energy and can (if there is a lot of friction) divert attention away from the spiritual toward the mundane.

Heh, Morgan, I bet you didn’t have any idea what you were stirring up with the celibacy thing, huh? Anyone care to talk about accordions! 😉

I am That, you are That, all of this is That, and That is all there is.

by shakti on Fri Jun 2nd, 2006 at 10:06:45 PDT

My 13 cents (4.00 / 2)

Today’s the first of June, which may or may not be named for Juno, Roman goddess of marriage, childbirth, and related feminine/maternal stuff. Commentary?

Even though it’s considered trite in some circles, my wife and I had both of our marraige ceremonies (civil and spiritual) in June.  Our legal anniversary is June 13th, and our spiritual is the summer solstice.  W’ll be celebrating the 8th anniversary of both this month, so there seems to be some kind of good mojo going here.

Blessed Be

Taliesin Athor Govannon
HP, Coven of Caer Arianrhod
Taliesin’s Witchcraft Page

by Taliesin on Fri Jun 2nd, 2006 at 20:34:41 PDT

Pssst ! Taliesin ? (4.00 / 3)

On pastordan’s A Spirit of Divisiveness diary, Rain & I got into a gigle-fit over the idea of theocon thugs (J.Dobson, P.Robertson, J.Falwell et al) as Harry Potteresque boggarts that we were doing in with various Riddikulus spells. Then Rain commented “Defense against the Dark Arts can be fun!” followed by the deadly serious comment “And sowing hatred is about as dark an art as they come — real black magic. Toxic stuff, hatred and division.”

Now, you & I both know that the “White versus Black ” meme is far too simplistic to explain the Mystery of Magic, but the theocon / neocon movement certainly qualifies as a Dark Art according to the H.Potter definition.

So, how’s about writing a serious diary on radical reich politics as Dark Art, including ways to defeat it, from a Wiccan’s POV ?

Loud ‘n’ proud member of species Propheticus lycanthroponica since his “turning” circa 1684 C.E.

by The Werewolf Prophet on Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 at 00:05:36 PDT

hehehe (4.00 / 4)

And Wolfie now has the Primopaginus spell which can magically put diaries he likes on the front page. 😉

by Elizabeth D on Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 at 09:02:55 PDT

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm……………. (4.00 / 5)

Bloody great idea!!!  Of course, it’ll have to involve some magickal work, which is a meme I’ve been in favour of for some time.

Wolfie, what hath thou unleashed???

Blessed Be

Taliesin Athor Govannon
HP, Coven of Caer Arianrhod
Taliesin’s Witchcraft Page

by Taliesin on Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 at 09:15:33 PDT

What have I unleashed ? (4.00 / 4)

Why, nothing at all, other than perhaps a cloud of fleas on the Front Page !

:: Wolfie sits on his haunches, wagging his tail, looking all innocent-like ::

Loud ‘n’ proud member of species Propheticus lycanthroponica since his “turning” circa 1684 C.E.

by The Werewolf Prophet on Sat Jun 3rd, 2006 at 10:34:32 PDT

Well, it’s a little early (4.00 / 2)

but happy anniversary then to you and your wife! My wife and I celebrate our 22nd anniversary this Sept. 30, although we’ve been together for 23 years. Sometimes it doesn’t seem it’s been that long. And yet I couldn’t imagine life without her. But it does seem like you two have something special happening. May the two of you have many happy years together!

by bmac on Sun Jun 4th, 2006 at 06:35:01 PDT

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